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Dear UrbanBaby community,

Thank you so much for being a valued member of the UrbanBaby community. We wanted to inform you that we are shutting down the site on July 6th. We are grateful for your participation and support that has helped make UrbanBaby such an important resource to parents for many years.

If you have any questions or concerns, you can email us at urbanbaby-support@cbsinteractive.com.

Thanks so much,

UrbanBaby Support

[ - ] dh is going to claim the computer soon. quick. any interesting topics? 5 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:27 PM Flag
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saw an old friend today - she has metastatic cancer AND the best outlook on life [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:28 PM Flag
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yikes. kids? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:48 PM Flag
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no, but she is a teacher in a low-income area, and many kids see her as a mentor [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:49 PM Flag
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I know someone like this, but she does have a kid. Can't figure out how she keeps it together [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 06:42 PM Flag
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I made chocolate chip cookies today and added shredded zucchini, seems weird but oddly very delicious! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:42 PM Flag
[ - ] im so upset, i was just speaking to dh about how i only have 11 wk of pregnancy left. i told him i was nervous because i was so weepy with dc #1. he told me "im just going to have to get it together". how should i handle this? 4 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:24 PM Flag
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Take his advice? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:26 PM Flag
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Call a sympathetic friend and leave dh alone. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:26 PM Flag
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good advice [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:27 PM Flag
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get a therapist to help you with the transition to #2 I did and it made ALL the difference. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:29 PM Flag
[ - ] What is the school on Chambers St (Tribeca) next to PS 89 across the street from Stuyvesant? 34 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More
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Preschool/Kids 07.27.08, 05:24 PM Flag
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234? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:25 PM Flag
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^^Is ps 89 a good school? We will be moving to that area soon so I am curious about those schools. Thanks [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:25 PM Flag
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np and from what I know, it is less crowded than 234, and has an involved parent body. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:26 PM Flag
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also look at 150...it's not for everyone, but it gets good "reviews" consistently and my dd went there for 6 years and we loved it...and that's not hyperbole. I don't think we could have been happier [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:28 PM Flag
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np and curious, where did your dd end up for middle school? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:28 PM Flag
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PPAS [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:32 PM Flag
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I'm a school virgin. what is this? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:32 PM Flag
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a public 6-12 performing arts school. you have to audition to get in...and some (a minority) of the kids are working. 2 of the Gossip Girl kids are in the high school. it's a very good school IMO, but doesn't have the recognition or status of La Guardia. dd loves it because it's small, like 150 was. the middle school only has one class per grade. and the entire school is only about 400 kids. her teachers have been really good for the most part. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:42 PM Flag
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wow - that's great. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:44 PM Flag
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Alicia Keys is a grad of PPAS, I believe [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 07:17 PM Flag
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And I bet that once those kids are parents and have to look for a school they will go private for their own children. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 06:33 AM Flag
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And their own children won't be 1/4 as successful as the parents [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 06:36 AM Flag
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Probably. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 06:38 AM Flag
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okey doke [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 07:01 AM Flag
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from the outside, the building (not ps89) looked beautiful - well maintained, clean and almost new and it was completely gated [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:29 PM Flag
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did it have ships on the black fence? if so, 234 [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:30 PM Flag
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yes it did! thank you. i just happened to walk by the back of the building and didn't get a chance to look for any school signs. do you know if it is a good school? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:31 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:33 PM Flag
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thanks! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:35 PM Flag
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op: so families in that neighborhood are zoned for both 89 and 234? will we get to choose? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:34 PM Flag
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no, you are zoned for one or the other. No choice. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:35 PM Flag
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no choice - if you live in bpc, you go to 89. tribeca to 234 [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:35 PM Flag
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gotcha. thanks! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:36 PM Flag
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I believe 150 takes kids from bpc and tribeca [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:44 PM Flag
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Admission to PS 150 is by lottery, with many kids starting in the preK. I think residents of Lower Manhattan get preference. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 10:27 PM Flag
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150 takes kids from all district 2 with priority to neighborhood children. We are on the UES and we got accepted a spot at 150 for next year. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 06:34 AM Flag
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congrats! it's a great school with great teachers and great parental involvement [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 07:03 AM Flag
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it's been a good school in the past, but has suffered recently from crowding issues, from my understandint [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:39 PM Flag
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it is one of the few schools w/central air, largely due to the fact that it was built as part of that apt building, I think [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:31 PM Flag
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not a huge issue for most of the school year [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:45 PM Flag
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PS 89 and PS 234 are both over-crowded. 234 had a break this year because of the newly-opened annex, but the principals of both schools are scrambling to find room for all students this coming fall. 234 has placed some zoned entering-K students on a waiting list. The New York Times and Downtown Express have had articles on this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 06:55 PM Flag
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150 is also very near there, within 1/2 block...and there is also BMCC, but I don't think that's what you're looking for [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:26 PM Flag
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what is bmcc? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:32 PM Flag
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borough of manhattan community college [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:33 PM Flag
[ - ] cheeze its and red wine: my dinner of dreams 4 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:20 PM Flag
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Substitute cheese nips and I'll join you. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:25 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:26 PM Flag
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Nips are my comfort food. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:27 PM Flag
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there is something so nice about the cheez flavored cracker, whether nip or its [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:27 PM Flag
[ - ] Any great pre-ks in or around Ardsley? Need advice fast, thanks! 22 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More
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Preschool/Kids 07.27.08, 05:19 PM Flag
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I work w/someone who sent her kids to a montesori at a presbyterian church in ardsley and loved it. sorry I don't know the name. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:22 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 06:15 PM Flag
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Thanks!!! Will look into both places. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 07:11 PM Flag
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Really would love your Ardsley advice -- can you also recommend a family doctor, pediatric dentist and/or family dentist, best hospital.... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 07:17 PM Flag
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live in Ardsley for over 10 years - what do you want to know! welcome, by the way! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 06:08 AM Flag
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Thank you !! I just called Lynn at Elmwood and they only have an afternoon spot. She and the school sound wonderful. I wanted to avoid finding a full-time nanny babysitter this year , and my son will start 1st grade at concord, so i'll try and find another pre-k -- though Lynn said she'd put us down on the waitlist. How old are your kids, and what sort of afterschool fun are they involved in, and where? Thanks for the reply, we don't know anyone in or around that area -- it's just so beautiful and we found a great house so we're excited! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 07:14 AM Flag
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I love it here - sure you will too! My kids are older - 1 still at concord road, 1 in middle school. My oldest son went to the Hastings Co-op nursery school - used to be on Jackson ave - but now moved. Older one went to the nursery school on Ashford Avenue - forget name - in church - low key - but nice - not extended day though. I think community nursery school on american legion drive has an extended day program. lots and lots of afterschool programs - you can still enroll your 1st grader in Ayso soccer - you'll meet tons of people there. Also get the Greenburgh rec book as you can do a lot of those programs - not all for residents. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 07:19 AM Flag
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Does anyone know anything about Ardsley Community Nursery? We live in Irvington and son is turning 2 in Sept. I wanted him to get him into a program. any comments on program? thanks! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 08.20.08, 08:27 AM Flag
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Our son is way into golf, (we're not) and chess, and has some interest in soccer -- Ayso soccer sounds great. Does Concord have a chess program? I'm a little bummed that I can't see the school in session, but from everything i've heard it's a great school. My son isn't a whiz kid, though of course we think he's perfect -- is Concord very very academic? He's reading, writing only a little, but i worry that because of his shyness it'll be hard to "catch up" if we move in oct/nov. Also do you have a good family doctor up there? Thanks again! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 07:36 AM Flag
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I know they offer golf programs for kids - though maybe just in the Spring - through Greenburgh rec... as for chess - I think they have it for after school program. If you move in Nov / Dec find out about the programs before you move so he can enroll in them. I used to work in a school district and I think its actually good to move in after school starts as the child gets a proper introduction, attention and is not lost in all the school starting frenzy. I think the school is academic - but not too demanding in concord road (much more so in MS and HS). They have great reading / writing specialists who will work with your soon if he's behind - they are great at that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 07:48 AM Flag
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Fantastic. Thank you for the reassurance, now and then feeling anxious about leaving the city. Been here 22 years, but ready for a big change -- a bigger living space, better schools, fresh air -- so it's all good! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 08:00 AM Flag
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Oh, one more question -- here in the city not many kids do the afterschool programs at the elementary school since it's much more of an aftercare vibe - - we choose programs that are elsewhere.. How is it at Concord -- are there options outside of the school, and is the Concord afterschool a popular choice for quality fun and learning? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 08:04 AM Flag
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There are 2 options - there is an afterschool care program at concord road (and grades 5,6 in MS) which is run in the schools but not by the school - they are more aftercare - though they do do things with the kids, help with HW and have 'extras' classes you pay a little more for... than there is the after school classes organized by the pta - check out the handbook on the Ardsley schools website for tons of info. I came from city to and have enjoyed it - home ownership is a challenge - but I think its worth it - kids happy and it is quite country like for a burb so close to city - watch for deers, turkeys, even coyotes (not a good thing - but less common!) And, the surrounding villages are so close and have lots of restaurants and things to do also. Feel free to ask if more questions! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 08:17 AM Flag
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np: we also go to Elmwood and we live in Ardsley. Elmwood is great, but if you need full day - look into the Montessori in Dobbs Ferry. A lot of kids go to Westchester Pediatrics...the doctors are great, but the practice is horrible. very long waits and the office staff is really bad. ANother option is the practice from the upper west side with Traister et al. They have an office on Central Ave and they have very good doctors. The close hospital is very local - dobbs Ferry. If you have a real emergency, you probably wan to go to White Plains or if it is a trauma - Westchester Medical Center. Both are about 15 mins by car. Dobbs Ferry is local, and it is good if you have minor injuries because the wait time can be short. It is not a major hospital. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 05:27 PM Flag
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Pretty sure Traister isn't on my Blue Cross provider list. Could look into Soundview since they take my insurance. Do you have great GP doctor and/or OBGYN for yourself you can recommend? Thanks for the hospital info! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 06:00 PM Flag
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two friends go to Soundview and they really like it. They both see Dr Berman...he is old school, but a very good doctor. The practice is similar to Westchester Peds, but it is not as disorganized. I work full time in the city, so I still have all of my own doctors in Manhattan. My friends go to an internist they really like in Bronxville...I will try to get the name and post. I use a pediatric dentist in mt Kisco. It is a little far, but we only go twice a year. It is three women. Several neighbors recommended a practice in eastchester - next to the Little gym on rt 22. I have heard mixed things about dr dan in the Apple Bank building on Central Ave. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 07:45 PM Flag
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also, check out the free library classes at the Ardsley public library. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 07:45 PM Flag
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Thanks a mil! Off the subject of drs for a moment -- i got caught in the famous Ardsley traffic -- do you eventually find alternative routes to get across to Hastings or Dobbs? And should I be reserving a parking spot somewhere at a train station ? i don't need to commute into the city everyday, just maybe 2-3 days a week, but where's the best spot to park when taking the train, and which station, Dobbs? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 08:51 PM Flag
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are you zoned for hartsdale parking? if yes, no reservation needed. if no - and you are the Village of Ardsley. good luck. 'you will need to use the meters in Dobbs, or Scarsdale. or take the bee line bus from the park and ride. The traffic is bad. you can also try jackson to hastings. It does get backed up too, or you can cross the saw mill at Lawrence street and go to Dobbs the back way near that new Starbucks. The traffic is a real problem. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.29.08, 07:55 PM Flag
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I go to Eastchester OBGYN on Rt 22. not sure if I woudl recommend them because they are too busy. It reminds me of Westchester Peds. very good doctors, but very overworked. If you do call, Ainsworth is the most senior and I also like Abbatista and Meyers. They deliver at White Plains. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.30.08, 05:47 AM Flag
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I appreciate all the support. Stressing out about what you do with kids after school, (I work at home office until 5-6pm) . Here in the city we do afterschool stuff where kids are taken by our babysitter, or they just get dropped off for playdates. I know this sounds like a ridiculous question -- and this in regard mainly to my 3 year old who will be out of pre-k at 2 pm -- what do you do for the rest of the day?? Is there a playground culture, or is it mainly just go to the library , play at home, etc... Is it customary for the babysitter to drive your children around? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 08.01.08, 12:54 PM Flag
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It is the same here. A lot of kids go to the Ardsley middle school playground - off Ardsley road. This is a hang out for toddlers and preschoolers. There is a class once a week at the Ardsley library - free - you just sign up. A parent or carediver does need to be there if he is 3. Babysitters definitely drive. My dd goes all over with her babysitter and she has playdates with other kids that have babysitters that drive. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 08.03.08, 07:22 PM Flag
[ - ] long live george wendt 0 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:19 PM Flag
[ - ] duchovny on with kelly ripa. confirms his kids 9 and 6 are in at legacy schools: boy got in to collegiate girl to brearley. Kelly:"o migosh that's so great so legacies do help"" DD: "right, because the kids are not very bright" 16 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:08 PM Flag
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LOL!! I the fame helped more than the legacy. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:11 PM Flag
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^^^think [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:11 PM Flag
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Duchovany is a Harvard grad [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:20 PM Flag
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not an excuse for being an arrogant prick... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:46 PM Flag
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what was he supposed to say? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 06:58 PM Flag
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the arrogance is not 'getting' how LUCKY they are to just be able to 'switch' their kids to the best schools in nyc at non-entry points. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 03:58 AM Flag
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Princeton actually. And master's (and ABD) at Yale. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 07:12 PM Flag
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does this mean tia leone went to brearley? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:23 PM Flag
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yes [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:28 PM Flag
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huh. by bil went to collegiate w/duchovny. Duchovny won some award there, the headmaster's boy or something? apparently, his name is on some plaque in the main hall? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:29 PM Flag
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she didn't graduate-went to boarding school [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 06:20 PM Flag
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Putney [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 07:14 PM Flag
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Duchovny's mother, Meg, is a great educator. She was head of the lower school at Grace for many years. Her son went from Grace to Collegiate, receiving financial aid, I believe. Another of her children is a teacher at an NYC independent school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 06:31 PM Flag
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It was obviously a joke. Duchovny did graduate work at Yale, too. He is well-educated and has a sense of humor. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 06:50 PM Flag
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Wonder why their kids aren't going to Grace. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 07:32 PM Flag
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As IF people like Kelly Ripa or DD need to go thru the process same as us. Blech. I know DD is a smart guy but I don't think Kelly Ripa and her dh had smart genes. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 08:17 AM Flag
[ - ] just got a volvo xc90 - dh is worried it is too "status" - is that true? 1 Reply [ Reply | Watch | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:07 PM Flag
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Volvo definitely part of the Mercedes-BMW-Lexus world these days. Subaru is what professors and former Volvo drivers have now. But xc90 is no Range Rover or Escalade [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:16 PM Flag
[ - ] name poll - paloma mirelle 3 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:05 PM Flag
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sounds like a warty growth to be removed. sorry [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:19 PM Flag
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Paloma is ok, but mirelle sounds like a prescription. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 06:38 PM Flag
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ITA! I liked Miriam better when you asked once or twice before. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 06:43 PM Flag
[ - ] Episcopal or Park Avenue Christian: all things being equal, which would you choose for your 3 year-old and why? 4 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More
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Preschool/Kids 07.27.08, 04:36 PM Flag
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When is DC's b-day? I like both schools, but think that Episcopal's 5's class is stronger (although PAC's day is longer). Love the Episcopal building (and that the school has its own space), but also love the PAC basement playground. Episcopal has a very strong specials program (music, movement, storytelling). Classes at PAC are bigger (which can be good or bad, depends on the DC). (My DC go/went to Episcopal, so I'm not completely neutral!) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:56 PM Flag
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thanks so much - can I ask one more question: what is the social scene like at Episcopal - is it very cliquey? some say PAC is more "laid back"... also, we live in low 70s, so E would be convenient - does that matter? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:42 PM Flag
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np and I think PAC is not laid back. E seemed more mixed to me [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:43 PM Flag
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It depends on the class -- some are very "scene"-like and some are not. Each class has "big shots", but most are nice. DC is in a PM class with many SAHMs and everyone is friendly. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 06:18 PM Flag
[ - ] I need a new digital.. any suggestions for a camera? 2 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:30 PM Flag
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Depends what you need. If you want a small pocket size, I highly recommend the digital Elphs. If you are looking for a high end SLR, my dh loves his Canon Rebel. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 06:10 PM Flag
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ITA. I've got both of these cameras. Use the canon elph for vacation photos, to carry in my purse, etc., for quick snapshots of dc, but use the canon SLR for portraits at home, holidays, events, etc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 07:00 PM Flag
[ - ] Has anyone ever known someone who was married to a dh who was gay? 6 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:19 PM Flag
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Well my DH has had sex with me about 12 times in 6 years, does that count? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:19 PM Flag
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do you initiate or have you given up? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:20 PM Flag
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Done with it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:22 PM Flag
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how are things otherwise? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:23 PM Flag
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is he gay or are you both just not into each other? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:26 PM Flag
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Mrs. McGreevy [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:31 PM Flag
[ - ] Why do so many more people opt for amnio over cvs? 16 Replies [ Reply | Watch | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:17 PM Flag
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a bit safer...less chance of m/c [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:19 PM Flag
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not really true. Depends on who does it/where you have it done. 2007 study in obstetrics and gynecology journal said "no statistical or clinical diff. in risk rates of CVS vs. AMnio" based on review of 20 years worth of data at one CA center. Columbia Presbyterian quotes no statistical difference (CVS is 1/200 and Amnio is 1/300, which is no statistical diff., according to them) OP - good question! I am eager to know this too. I think the answer is most people are basing decisions on old data... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:21 PM Flag
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op: you know, I just wonder, if you can get all the same data that much earlier, why is everyone waiting for the amnio? i've terminated a pg b/c of bad test results, next time i feel like i'll definitely do a cvs. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:24 PM Flag
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I don't know, I'm getting CVS. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:43 PM Flag
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Amnio is still safer, though in NYC, I think that is debatable. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:26 PM Flag
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and amnio can detect spina bifida but cvs can't, right? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:27 PM Flag
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No, vice versa. CVS doesn't detect neural tube defects like spina bifida. But blood tests and ultrasound (around same time as Amnio would be performed) can. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:33 PM Flag
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CVS can sometimes not give results (in 5% of cases). Therefore Amnio has to be done. Some people do not want to risk 2 procedures. Also amnio can check for a larger amount of disorders (if you are in a minority group you may need this) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:09 PM Flag
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what are you basing that on? Stats from babycenter or something? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:38 PM Flag
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I would not terminate, just plan to be prepared, so I chose what I thought was the safer route at the time. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:29 PM Flag
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Hopefully, the non ivasive testing will become good enough to replace both. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 04:51 PM Flag
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it can never be definite [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:10 PM Flag
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no, but it might just end up being good enough for most [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:29 PM Flag
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According to my OB, most people do see a doctor early enough to be able to schedule CVS. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 05:17 PM Flag
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No clue - I did the CVS, didn't even consider amnio. My choice was either Nuchal (and hopefully no further testing) or CVS. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.27.08, 06:09 PM Flag
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Where you get the tests done matters more in terms of risk than which test you chose to do. CVS at the top places is the same or less risky than amnio, but it depends where you do and specifically, who does the testing. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 04:08 PM Flag
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