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06.03.20, 12:38 PM General Topics
70 replies
WWYD? Last week, our nanny of 3.5 years had a minor stroke. Because of the quarantine, DH and I were home, called 911, and she was treated in time and will make a full recovery. If not for the quarantine, she would have been alone with our 10 month old and 3.5 year old children. She is 69, and I have increasingly felt she is getting a little too old to do this job safely. Should we offer 6-8 weeks severance and let her go now? Or do what she wants - two weeks off and back to work? More details in comments... [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
General Topics 06.03.20, 12:38 PM Flag
 

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I would give her the generous severance and let her go. She needs to take care of her health even if she doesn't want to, and you need to not be worried all the time that something will happen again. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 12:41 PM Flag
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+1. I know it's hard, but she is old and needs to take care of herself. Her adult children need to step in and take care of her either in Jersey or SA. Your children are way too young to have someone with health issues taking care of them. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 12:44 PM Flag
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Ditto the above. Her immediate family that she has bee supporting has the obligation, not you. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 03:40 AM Flag
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Is she working legally? If she is, you can let her go with a nice severance. If she is not, I might call to an immigrant resource center and find out what she might be eligible for. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 04:48 AM Flag
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OP - a major issue is that she seems to have no way to retire. She has no savings, and sends all her money to her adult children in South America to complete a home she purchased there. She had a daughter in the tri-state area, and refused to stay at the daughter's home during her recovery (doctor cleared her to go home alone). She wanted to stay with us, and I am increasingly nervous about these boundary issues. We are just not her family. She has provided good, loving care to our kids for years, and I want to be fair. But I am overwhelmed by having responsibility for this woman's life, even as I question whether she can continue to do this job. Thanks for listening. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 12:41 PM Flag
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One difficult thing is that in South America in this situation, you would be treating her like a family member. So there's a cultural divide in place. This sounds really, really challenging. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 12:50 PM Flag
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really? when I stayed with a family in south america they barely aknowledged the help. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 12:59 PM Flag
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+1 [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:51 PM Flag
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IME, in parts of SA nannies are NOT treated as family. More like an appliance. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:03 PM Flag
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They take care of long term nannies, yes. Not sure where you were, or perhaps not with a wealthy family? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:08 PM Flag
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My family in SA was far from wealthy but my grandmother took care of my uncles nanny until she died but this is different, OP’s nanny needs to be taken care of by the nanny’s children/family. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 02:06 PM Flag
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It’s an inherent dilemma in this country where middle class families employ working class household staff with no tradition or economic possibility of keeping them on or helping them when their skills are no longer optimal. Where does your responsibility end? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 02:14 PM Flag
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yes, that's it. first, i would check out the domestic workers' alliance and see what suggestions they have. second, hate to ask, but does she have status to work here? if so, does she have medicare? if so, see if there is any way she can get into a live-in rehab program at long term care facility? that buys time to figure out a plan. if you can get her in there, then maybe the generous severance after that. the pp here is so on it. this is what happens in a society founded on slave labor and unwilling to recognize domestic work/caregiving as a key variable in our GDP. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 06:06 PM Flag
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This is bull. People think of their help as less than in almost of those countries [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 04:42 AM Flag
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No to living with you and don’t worry about her retirement. She has a plan. Her adult children will take care of her. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 03:37 PM Flag
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Yes, she made her plan. Got herself a house now it’s time for her to enjoy her house. She sent her money to her kids and they need to take care of her. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 11:58 AM Flag
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Is that going to violate employment law? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 12:49 PM Flag
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Why? If she can't do her job safely, she can't stay. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:06 PM Flag
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Ageism, and fired for health issues. She could sue. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:09 PM Flag
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OP - I honestly don't know about the law, we'll look into it. But I am not worried she would sue. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:15 PM Flag
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np: No, the Age Discrimination law only applies to employers with 20 or more employees. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:49 PM Flag
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This. Similar to how buildings under a certain size/owner occupied can discriminate when it comes to tenants. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 02:03 PM Flag
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I think it depends on a job, I am sure she would have a very weak case given that she works for a household and has to take care of very young kids who could be endangered. At her age she is eligible for a lot of benefits from free medical care to subsidized senior housing and getting social security. I am assuming that she is a citizen or a legal alien. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 12:14 AM Flag
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If not, she won't get anything. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 04:45 AM Flag
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If her physician clears her for return to work, she’s supposed to be able to return to work. I get your concerns, but in another work setting, they’d be afraid to fire her. You weren’t looking to terminate her before this happened. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:18 PM Flag
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I agree. This is kind of a NIMBY situation. A transient ischemic attack with no physical deficits in no way disqualified her from doing her job. I don’t mean this cruelly because I get your concern but ethically you are wrong. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:29 PM Flag
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But does the physician cleared her for physical work. You don't know that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:43 PM Flag
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OP - we are working on this. We asked her to clear her doctor to speak with us so we can understand any limitations before making a decision, and she agreed. No, I would not take her word for it. She believes she is invincible and will tell us the doctors say so, too. We could ask for a letter or something, but right now she has agreed to let us speak to the doctors. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:47 PM Flag
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How could any responsible physician clear someone who watches children and has had a stroke? Once a person has had a stroke, it is very likely they will have another. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 03:17 PM Flag
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Are you in NY? NY is an "employment at will" state meaning you can terminate employment an relationship at any time, for any reason. Equally your nanny can leave at any time, for any reason. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 02:43 PM Flag
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No you can’t if the reason Is one of the protected classes. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 04:25 PM Flag
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I am not a lawyer, so OP should ask legal help and also maybe research if discrimination law applies to households. It's a very different dynamic and the type of job. There are laws excusing companies with under 50 employees from a lot of obligations of bigger companies, like providing benefits and health insurance, etc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 12:19 AM Flag
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+1000 - it’s going to be hard but keeping her around longer won’t make things easier [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 12:53 PM Flag
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OP - one other option (and what DH wants to do) is let her come back, and basically give her a bit more time. ~3 months or so to make a plan, offer to buy her a ticket back to her country at the end of the summer. This only seems doable because we will be home all summer (according to employers), so while she would take the kids for walks, she wouldn't be alone with them for long stretches. I feel like this is extending the pain, but trying to come up with a solution. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:16 PM Flag
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It may be extending the pain for you, but it would be giving her more time to get her affairs in order. If it ends up getting awkward, you could just pay her for the remaining time and let her go. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:18 PM Flag
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So this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 04:24 PM Flag
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So this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 04:24 PM Flag
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i do not think you are obligated to keep her employed forever but if i were you, I would go to the greatest lengths to do what you can that provides money and time for a plan. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 06:09 PM Flag
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This is a good idea. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:43 PM Flag
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This is a really good idea. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 03:04 PM Flag
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+1 [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 02:17 AM Flag
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A solution for you, you or the nanny? Because your posts suggest that you don't really care what happens to her once she is out of your house. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 04:25 PM Flag
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^^for who [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 04:25 PM Flag
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OP - obviously I do care or we would let her go. Honestly, we have temporary care all summer that is a better option for us, and I worry about my children's safety in her care. I am agonizing over this because the best option for us may not be the best option for her. Not sure how you got that I don't care. If I didn't, we would pay her severance and send her packing. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 05:55 PM Flag
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That OR was out of line. If you did it care, you would just fire her [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 12:16 AM Flag
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Completely unnecessary comment, it's obvious that OP cares [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 02:19 AM Flag
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NP: You are an amazing person. This would be a wonderful thing for you to do, and I can't say how impressed I am. Our nanny cared for our kids from birth to elementary school. When she developed breast cancer we paid for her surgery and covered her during her recovery. I can't just chuck someone out of my life who has been such a part of our lives. She is fully recovered, and she attended each of our children's high school graduations...at their insistence. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 07:25 PM Flag
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That sounds like a reasonable idea. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 07:26 PM Flag
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If you have been paying her on the books, could she qualify for unemployment? You can lay her off and she may qualify for the Covid-19 unemployment as well. I would not leave her alone with kids that young. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:20 PM Flag
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ITA. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 01:52 PM Flag
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We had a similar situation, older nanny who had serious health issues, we had a come to Jesus discussion with her family and she ended up moving to live with her son. She passed a few years latter. Reality is, in many ways we were her family, in the sense of having obligations. OP, sounds like your relationship is not as close, but you need to think about what you can live with, in all senses. At the least, I'd get in touch with the daughter and discuss what can/should be done for the mom, just firing her and leaving her with health issues and no income isn't something I could do if I had any financial resources myself, but maybe OP sees it differently. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 04:23 PM Flag
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OP - but I think this is my question. What are our obligations? We can't afford to pay her indefinitely, while also paying for additional childcare. I don't think that by employing her I signed on to support a non-family member adult for the rest of her life. This may result in a come to jesus with her daughter, who was totally willing to come pick her mother up and take her home last week. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 06:02 PM Flag
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Is there a reason for you to think that she is requesting this type of support? It seems like she has a backup plan and bought a house in her country and also has a family. I don't think you are on the hook or should be on the hook to support her for the rest of her life and it's not like she is asking for it. I think she is just not ready to retire yet and wants to keep working. It's a different issue. She thinks she is capable. The easiest way out usually is when the family doesn't need childcare anymore, vs. having to lay off existing nanny just to hire another one. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 12:25 AM Flag
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OP - but I think this is my question. What are our obligations? We can't afford to pay her indefinitely, while also paying for additional childcare. I don't think that by employing her I signed on to support a non-family member adult for the rest of her life. This may result in a come to jesus with her daughter, who was totally willing to come pick her mother up and take her home last week. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 06:02 PM Flag
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OP - sorry, I don't mean to sound callous. Obviously, these are complicated relationships and entanglements, and I am struggling to find the balance between doing what is right for our family, and figuring out what is fair to our nanny. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 06:08 PM Flag
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I think it is difficult because she is not ready to retire and you are sort of pushing her to retire. You will need some excuse as to why you no longer need her and will have to provide severance. I don't know how close you are to discuss this, retirement is a touchy topic. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 12:28 AM Flag
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NP: First kudos to you for caring. It always amazes me how few people do care about the people who care about their children. I would contact the daughter in the tri-state area and explain that as much as you appreciate her mother's caring for the children that you need to move onto another care provider. Your nanny is not without family, even though she is without financial resources. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 07:22 PM Flag
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If she has been employed legally she would be eligible for social security. On her behalf can you check what her benefits are? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 07:22 PM Flag
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Yep, since I assume you have employed her legally, she will get unemployment as well. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 07:23 PM Flag
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Also this. She will get unemployment and you can also add severance. And due to her age she is qualified for many benefits. She definitely should be able to support herself here and also seems to have an option of leaving to go to her country or living there PT. The hardest issue here is not that she will be on the streets if OP lets her go, but having to convince her that she should retire. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 12:30 AM Flag
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I believe as long as you are a legal alien you are eligible for social security even if you didn't work a single day in the USA. Elderly immigrants get it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 12:29 AM Flag
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I think you give her as much as you can and say a tearful goodbye. She will get unemployment and also tell her you strongly suggest she live with her daughter or go back to her country to the home she is building/built since obviously she does plan to go there. I completely agree with being generous and supportive but I also think that you shouldn't have to be responsible/enable her stubborn life choices. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 07:52 PM Flag
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Perhaps OP did not employ her legally? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 09:45 PM Flag
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The biggest issue would be if she doesn't have a green card yet, as she may not be eligible for the benefits. However if she was paid off the books, she just won't have employment record and won't be able to apply for unemployment, but she still would receive social security and medicare. OP can compensate her with a generous severance to make up for lost unemployment. The issue is if this lady is a legal alien or not. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 12:33 AM Flag
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Depends on how you can afford. Can she be a housekeeper for six months while looking for another job? She could cook clean even shop, make less and you get a housekeeper and feel good. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 08:51 PM Flag
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You wrote she doesn't have any money saved because she has been sending money to build a house. I assume the house is where she plans to live in her retirement. When is the house going to be finished? When was she planning on moving into the home? So at some point she planned to move back to her county. Have you asked her plans? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.03.20, 11:34 PM Flag
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This. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 12:33 AM Flag
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Problem with all humans is we don’t consider us old. When I was 20 I thought 40 and 50 will be quite old. I and there and consider myself young. My dad is 80 and still doesn’t want to retire. It looks like she is not mentally ready to retire but she did plan for her retirement. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 12:08 PM Flag
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True, but she must love/like these kids and if OP had a grown up conversation with her about risks going forward - she probably would agree she has to retire and begin the next phase of her life. Its not like they are throwing her on the streets - she has a "new" home and family which is so much more than many "old" people have. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 01:17 PM Flag
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OP - than you all for your help, She is working legally, so it sounds like we need to help her explore some of the benefits she might be able to access. Agree that this is a mind set issue - she may need to retire, and has made plans, but is just not ready. We are just continuing to pay her for the time being and having some of these conversations, so hopefully she will start to ease into this mind set in the next couple of weeks. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.04.20, 01:19 PM Flag
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