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06.01.08, 13:50 PM General Topics
86 replies
honestly, I'm not trying to start a big political discussion, but I just hate how every news story I see is so negative on Clinton. When she wins, they say something positive about him. They are still so close, and they just think they can ignore her. It's just the way the boys always treat girls and men treat women. Shut them up, ignore them, downplay them and wait for them to give up. If they complain, call them whiners and say nasty stuff. So sickening. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
General Topics 06.01.08, 01:50 PM Flag
 

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the misogyny unleashed by all of this has been stunning. and very, very disturbing. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:52 PM Flag
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:52 PM Flag
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Sorry. I don't think this anything to do with women. I think this has to do with an entitled person who ran a crummy campaign early on not accepting that this wasn't handed to her. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:52 PM Flag
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but she has fought like a tiger for every thing she has gotten, after being smeared and despised. I just don't buy it. I don't think it's right. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:53 PM Flag
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I'm angry with her. I voted for her in NY primary, but she should have stepped down when Obama was at his peak because it was nearly impossible for her to win and because it was best for the party. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:55 PM Flag
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but it's not nearly impossible. why should she give up? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:56 PM Flag
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It was and it is. She cannot mathematically beat him unless he got very very low percentages in states ages ago. It doesn't matter about the popular vote, that's not how our system works. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:58 PM Flag
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he's got 100 pledged delegate, she's got 1600, roughly and 2000 are needed to win. that's with the party giving away delegates she should have won. How is he so far ahead? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:01 PM Flag
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^make that 1700 for him. Not that far ahead [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:02 PM Flag
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If you think the FL and MI votes should have been counted, then we just completely disagree about everything here. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:04 PM Flag
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even putting that aside. Which is a lot to put aside. She is still close. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:08 PM Flag
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She wasn't back when she should have stepped down. She turned this into a dog fight, now they are both weak. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:08 PM Flag
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So you blame her, but he's the hero. Ok. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:10 PM Flag
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Where am I saying he is a hero? I think he's a weak candidate in some ways. But I think her actions have been abominable, even though in many ways I think she would be a great president. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:13 PM Flag
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I don't see the abominations, I think she has been smeared. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:15 PM Flag
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Here's the first one on my list: Going completely against her husband's (and her) solid position about the loss of factory jobs in this country, she completely pandered to disenfranchised lower middle class workers by promising to bring back jobs that have been gone for nearly a generation now. It played up all sorts of ugly attitudes about race and class - and is total bullshit. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:20 PM Flag
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:22 PM Flag
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Of course he wants them to get jobs - so does Hillary. But he isn't telling them their car manufacturing jobs are coming back. The truth is these people need education programs to move into other industries - education programs like Bill Clinton instituted. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:29 PM Flag
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and she's against that? I really doubt it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:31 PM Flag
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No, she's absolutely not. She just said otherwise to union groups, etc. to get votes in OH and PA. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:34 PM Flag
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look, I think this is another way her positions have been twisted. So much of this stuff is complicated and nuanced, and then is reduced to a lot of simplistic soundbites that can be interpreted in any way you choose. And people choose to interpret her statements in the most negative way they can. And I think it's just a lot of bullshit. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:36 PM Flag
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I've been watching videos of her speeches, reading articles, etc. Her positions vs. what she's been saying to groups of needed voters is what bothers me. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:39 PM Flag
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and you think Obama is better? You think he isn't saying things just to get elected? I can give you plenty of examples where he is playing to his audience and playing both sides of an issue. It's what politicians do, if they want to win. When he does it, his supporters give him a pass, then they call her evil for the same thing he does. It's a classic case of them using a double standard [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:44 PM Flag
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I'm not his supporter. I'm a Dem wanting a Dem president this freaking time. And he's been caught doing this and lashed by the press too. Like he should be, like she should be. I can't speak for Obama supporters, I find that supporters on both sides have turned into crazy people. And as I said before, it could have been avoided. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:46 PM Flag
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yet you blame her for it, and her supporters? And not him? It's her responsibility to give up and step aside? I see her as the better candidate. I won't vote for him. I don't reward people for dismissing me and my concerns. I don't think he has a great chance of winning. He should have waited and gotten her into the white house. If he chose to go ahead, with very little experience, it's on him to win over the people who preferred her. And he hasn't done it, he and his supporters have been insulting and high handed. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:52 PM Flag
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I think you see things twisted to the way you need them. And for the record, if she is the candidate in November, I will be voting for her. Because the country is more important than my ego. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:53 PM Flag
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honestly, it's not about ego to me. It's principle. I have never been that happy with either of these candidates, but would have backed either one to get the republicans out. But I cannot accept the way they have trashed her. It's not what a liberal party should accept. I'm tired of settling. We've settled for losers candidates in the past, and it's hasn't helped. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:57 PM Flag
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I've seen a lot of crazy supporters online trashing Hillary, but not from him. You might be right about the loser candidate thing though, I am predicting a crummy outcome for Dems either way. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:59 PM Flag
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NP, and an Obama supporter, but the reason one would focus on HRC in this discussion is because the discussion is about press treatment of HRC! But as a point of comparison, I'd say the whole "what did the crazy black guy say" run of coverage on BHO, along with all the "a lot of people say he's a muslim and hates america" coverage is as racist as the misogynist things you're pointing out. Both candidates have had issues with prejudice. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:55 PM Flag
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there has not been the tolerance of racism, not the same way that sexism has been tolerated. Not even close. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:59 PM Flag
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who's doing the tolerating? Fox News is STILL running Wright clips all the time. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:01 PM Flag
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That's the same? How is it racists to run exact quotes from Obama's own pastor? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:03 PM Flag
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because it's "look at the crazy black guy coverage!" McCain's been covered a little bit, but only to quasi-balance the BHO thing. Bush/Bush/Regan all were very close with Pat Robertson, mister "god sends hurricanes to punish gays." Was that on the news for three months? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:05 PM Flag
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also, the "secret al queda operative" meme doesn't fly with a white person, nor does the "black liberation theology" tagline. No one tried to turn a white guy into Bobby Seale because it wouldn't have made sense. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:07 PM Flag
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I continue to be amazed at how the media and people like you characterize any criticism of BHO's relations with his racist mentor & pastor as "racist." Who was being racist--Obama, Wright, Hillary?? I'm confused! (I'm being facetious.) BHO has been rightfuly called out on the fact that he gave thousands of dollars and dutifully attended the church of a man who said the US govt infected Blacks with AIDS to kill them and the US deserved the attacks of 9/11 (while bodies were still charred at the WTC site). Racism is racism regardless of who says it. Wright is a racist and BHO was right along next to him for 2 decades--why is this now something to look closely at when the man is running for the presidency? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 07:23 PM Flag
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what politician has every been asked to give up when they were still in the running, except her? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:57 PM Flag
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Mike Huckabee was. John Edwards last time. Bill Bradley was against Gore. Jerry Brown was against Clinton. This happens every year, but as has been said, the losing candidate usually drops out. HRC has been realistically eliminated since March and has only lost ground since. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:58 PM Flag
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On April 7, Jerry Brown lost narrowly to Bill Clinton in Wisconsin (37-34), and dramatically in New York (41-26).Although Brown continued to campaign in a number of states, he won no further primaries. Despite this, he still had a sizable number of delegates, and a big win in his home state of California would deprive Clinton of sufficient support to win the nomination, which Brown apparently thought would revert to him by default. After nearly a month of intense campaigning and multiple debates between the two candidates, Clinton managed to defeat Brown in this final primary by a margin of 48% to 41%. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.02.08, 01:37 AM Flag
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"In 1980, Kennedy came into the Democratic convention at Madison Square Garden in New York City with 1,225 delegates to President Carter's 1,981, with 122 delegates uncommitted. Kennedy stood on principle and people admired him for fighting the good fight. If Kennedy could take it to the convention when he trailed by 756 delegates, why can't Hillary go to the convention trailing by far less?" [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.02.08, 01:38 AM Flag
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Why should she have stepped down? Do you think the republicans would have asked Romney to step down if he were that close to McCain? Never. Or Edwards if he were that close to Obama? NO Way. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:57 PM Flag
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None of those guys would have continued. And yes, they would have pushed for it. Party leaders always think about the party first. They just wouldn't have had to ask out loud in public, because the candidates would have pulled out when asked privately. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:59 PM Flag
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This would have never happened. Sorry. Obama is a media darling, nextt jfk blah blah. This push is media driven, not party driven. The media types on the other side would probably have pushed McCain to step down. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:01 PM Flag
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ITA, she's a woman so she's being asked to "compromise" & step down for the good of the party-- sounds familiar. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:48 PM Flag
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No, she's losing badly and is being asked to step down for the good of he party. That does sound familiar because it happens in every primary. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:00 PM Flag
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I agree that it's VERY unlikely (or even impossible) for her to win now but she was being asked to step down very early in the race when she DID have a decent chance. and I totally think it was because she was a woman. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:04 PM Flag
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I think you're probably overestimating when she last had a chance, but I don't recall anyone talking about how she should step down until the Ohio Texas primaries. She had already lost by then, but by winning those primaries she staved off those calls, despite that she was just as far behind as ever after TX/OH. I think the press has done some racist things and some misogynist things, but mostly they're trying to sell ad time by keeping these debates going. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:09 PM Flag
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If he's a media darling, why are we still talking about Jeremiah Wright going on three months? Lapel pins? Come on, his coverage has been ridiculously petty. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:02 PM Flag
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Republicans DID ask Huckabee to step down. In fact, he went on SNL to make fun of his unwillingness to leave the campaign. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:59 PM Flag
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Franklin D. Roosevelt was nominated in 1932 in a contentious convention after 4 ballots and went on to become President. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.02.08, 01:39 AM Flag
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itda - the country and the media's treatment of HRC has always been a barometer of attitudes toward women in general. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:54 PM Flag
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Are you trying to directly quote the minister with the "Entitlement" line???? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:55 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:57 PM Flag
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but, see - that's so sexist. It only works because she is a woman. Nobody calls male politicians "entitled", they call them confident. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 01:59 PM Flag
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I would think the exact same thing about a man. And the name John Kerry just popped into my head - he had the same ridiculous sense of entitlement. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:00 PM Flag
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I feel the same way but put in the name Obama [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:01 PM Flag
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And I can see why you would feel that way. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:02 PM Flag
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Lots of people called Mitt Romney entitled [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:02 PM Flag
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ita. what's happening is anti-hillary, not anti-woman. i am a huge feminist and i just don't see this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:05 PM Flag
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I think you are totally in denial. there's a thing where people don't want to see what's happening, because then they can think it won't happen to them. But it can, it can happen to you too. And when you don't speak up about it, and let it go, don't be surprised when it's your turn [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:07 PM Flag
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OR: Don't call us stupid because we disagree with you. Who is the effing misogynist here? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:08 PM Flag
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I'm not calling anyone stupid. There's a whole generation of younger women who take a lot for granted. They think there's no problem, that they won't be limited by their gender. It hasn't happened to them yet. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:10 PM Flag
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i am 42, my mother and grandmother were working women and i take nothing for granted. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:11 PM Flag
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so you think there hasn't been any unfair bashing against Hillary based on gender? Really? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:12 PM Flag
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based on gender, no. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:13 PM Flag
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I can give you a hundred examples of really nasty things that have been said, that are based on her being a woman. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:24 PM Flag
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^ http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2008/05/hillary-sexism-watch-part-one-hundred.html [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:30 PM Flag
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This race is much more complicated than you are allowing. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:12 PM Flag
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no, I'm not saying it's the only factor, but I'm saying it's a huge factor. The media has been really crappy. They've said things you could never get away with if it were about another race, and no one has stood up and said that it is wrong. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:13 PM Flag
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We simply disagree. I think the media play has so much more to do with Hillary as a specific individual than women in general. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:16 PM Flag
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i was the ITA OR and i did not write this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:11 PM Flag
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i'm really not in denial. i'm informed and i am usually overly sensitive to feminist issues. i hear all the arguments and i just do not agree. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:09 PM Flag
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next you're going to tell me that harold ickes really cares about "fair reflection". [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:10 PM Flag
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what I'm saying is the media has been consistently biased against her. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:11 PM Flag
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i would not disagree with that. i disagree that it's becasue she's a woman. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:13 PM Flag
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-IrhRSwF9U [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:20 PM Flag
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The clips are awful. But you could find clips about Obama and race that are similar. It's a few minutes out of many thousands of hours of footage. (And I've been glad to hear that Chris Matthews will not have his contract renewed after the election, he's been awful.) I still say that a lot of Hillary's bad press is in reaction to her personally. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:28 PM Flag
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well, I disagree. I don't think you can find that sort of thing in the mainstream press about Obama, and if that kind of racism was put out there then there would be a huge outcry and people would condemn it. And this sort of thing has been the norm against her. She hasn't done anything to deserve this personally. She is a good candidate,with solid credentials, and positions that are very close to his. When people get away with this against her, then they can use it against any woman, at any time. And they do. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:35 PM Flag
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ita. her gender makes her an easier target, perhaps, but it's not the reason behind the nastiness. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:35 PM Flag
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what is a good reason for that sort of nastiness? Did you watch the clips? Is there a good excuse for any of that? Is she some sort of criminal? Is she a whore, like they have called her? What do you think justifies it? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:38 PM Flag
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many of the clips are from fox, so i completely discount those. honestly, the rest of them are more about what's wrong with the media in general (say anything to get a reaction) than specifically about women having a hard time. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:41 PM Flag
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I think you are completely wrong. Even if you hate Hillary as candidate you can not deny the sexism in this country that no ONE seems to bat an eye at. (Np) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:02 PM Flag
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People have been batting eyes at it like crazy! In fact, it seems like batting eyes at it is 90% of the reason she's still campaigning [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:04 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:08 PM Flag
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Well, I think there's not doubt there's been a lot. But there's been a lot of racist stuff too. And in any event, there's a lot of non-misogynist or racist stuff too. We should try not to conflate prejudiced coverage with factual coverage. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 03:11 PM Flag
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Who says we think those statements are justified? I think many people are very emotional in their reactions to Hillary because we have known her for so long and because of what happened and how she responded during Bill's presidency. Obama got a pass for a long time because he was "fresh and new." We have a long and complicated history with Hillary. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.01.08, 02:42 PM Flag
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How Media Bias Against Hillary Clinton Works: 1) Reporters REPEAT What the Obama Campaign SAY Hillary MEANT 2) The Public Easily Buys That a Woman Must be Evil (Eve) and Has Sinister Motives (sexism) 3) The Obama Campaign Fans the Flames Keeping the Story on Top: Cycle Repeats [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.02.08, 01:40 AM Flag
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