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05.30.08, 11:38 AM New York City
23 replies
Why the f is it so hard for politicians to grant gay couples the right to marry? I always here that the "sanctity or marriage" has to be kept but what does that mean? Isn't the word "sanctity" a religious term anyway? And shouldn't politicians stay away from that? Leave sanctity to the churches and make sure that gay couples get the same legal rights as hetero couples. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
New York City 05.30.08, 11:38 AM Flag
 

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ITA. Let them have a civil legal union of some kind and leave sanctity issues to the church. signed catholic mom [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 11:41 AM Flag
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In that case, the state should get out of the marriage business entirely. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:05 PM Flag
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but there are many legal advantages to having some sort of civil union - inheritance, insurance, children, divorce etc. What's wrong with having civil unions open to any couple and letting churches decide what relationships they want to recognize on a purely spiritual level? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:09 PM Flag
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np - I think the worry is that a civil union will somehow grant less legal rights than the rights a hetero marriage gets under the law [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:10 PM Flag
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but if you change the way it's done, you can set it up so that civil union = marriage. We will just change what it's called and open it up to anyone. You can still call it whatever you want in your private life but my marriage would be equal to my lesbian friend's marriage in all legal ways [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:12 PM Flag
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because the concept of marriage has evolved. when you tell someone you are married, it's not because you want them to know you went to a church. you may not have been married in a church. it's because you want them to know that you are legally joined. marriage isn't what it used to be. time for people to get used to that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:12 PM Flag
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well sure but that's kind of my point I guess. Have a purely civil concept of marriage (or whatever you want to call it) that grants the legal rights etc. That is the correct role of the state. Anything else is in the realm of personal beliefs and should stay there. Just like right now if a couple gets married but wants an open relationship. They are still married. It's different from mmy marriage but if it works for them it doesn't effect me [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:15 PM Flag
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I'll play devil's advocate. "Marriage" is a religious term. It is a religious rite. Just because the state found it convenient to co-opt it for their purposes does not mean that religious people have no right to say what marriage is. (This is why I personally argue for the government getting out of all marriages. I say the gov't "does" civil unions and let anybody who want to "do" marriages.) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 11:53 AM Flag
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that is a great idea [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:02 PM Flag
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love the sarcasm [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:02 PM Flag
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LOL! I was actually being serious. I don't see what the problem is. Gay people should be able to have life partners just like straight people do. Let civil union be the business of the state and the sacramant of marriage be the business of the church. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:03 PM Flag
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don't you think it will be hard for people to switch from saying "we are married" to "we are civilly unionized"? and what would be the terms: wife and husband, or spouse or partner? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:10 PM Flag
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well I don't see why you would have to switch terminology. It is all a formality anyway. You can call it anything you like [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:11 PM Flag
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that doesn't square with the concept of creating separate terminology. and also, there are churchs that marry gays. now what? i think you can see that this civil union for all non-religious marriages is just an excuse to again so no marriage for gays. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:13 PM Flag
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I'm not OR. I was just saying I don't have a problem with the state handling legal aspects of "marriage" whatever you want to cal it, and churches handling the other spiritual aspects. If a church wants to do gay marriage, more power to them. I dont think there is a need to have dif terminology for it any more than there is now for straight couples. I got married in a church. My friend got married at the courthouse. We are both married [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:17 PM Flag
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so basically, you are saying that you think gays should be able to get married. think about it, when gays talking about the righ to marry, they are not talking about the right to go to some church that will marry them. they are talking about legal rights. i think trying to parse the terminology is what creates confusion. already the state handles the legal aspects of marriage and churches handle the spiritual part. in fact, i think many religious ceremonies are not considered legal. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:19 PM Flag
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yes. I think gay people should be able to get legally married and have the same rights as a couple that I and DH do. I think some of the people who have trouble with the issue of gay marriage have the idea that it will somehow force them and their church to accept it and perform marriages for gay people. That's why I think making the legal and spiritual parts clearly separate may help. Maybe not though ;-) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:22 PM Flag
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actually, if you had a chruch marriage with no marriage license from the state, the state would not necessarily consider you married~you had *ceremonies* in different places, but you both legalized through the local jurisdiction [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.31.08, 04:56 PM Flag
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OP: that is the beauty of my solution. Any organization that wants to can have any ceremony they want to and offer any title to any one they want. The state licenses organizations (including but not limited to churches/synagogues/mosques) to perform civil unions. But hell the Produce Guy at the Park Slope Food Coop could get licensed also. (Just like my former assistant did.) He could call if a marriage or a salad for all he/you like. The Catholic Church can bitch about the Food Coop if they want but they have no beef with the state. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:27 PM Flag
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LOL! I like you [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:28 PM Flag
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right back at ya! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:34 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 11:54 AM Flag
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I have a problem with exclusion. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 12:06 PM Flag
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