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05.30.08, 07:48 AM Preschool/Kids
57 replies
Evidence of the Craziness of the Testing: our DC: SB 99, OLSAT 84, ERB 99. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
Preschool/Kids 05.30.08, 07:48 AM Flag
 

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That doesn't sound crazy to me. SB is IQ test. ERB has some sections (not all ) from a different IQ test and OLSAT is an achievement test. Seems totally fine. They are really young children and many factors affect testing. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 07:53 AM Flag
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I guess I should add, I think it is nuts to test a four year old, but everyone who took any or all of these tests chose to do so. It's not like they are required. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 07:54 AM Flag
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Hey OP. Who choses to go that route? If there were excellent zoned schools we wouldn't have to. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.23.08, 11:48 AM Flag
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No, they're not - SB and ERB are highly reliable individually administered tests developed for 4-yr olds, and OLSAT is adaptation of unknown reliability. Of course ERB and SB will agree. They all measure the same thing, cognitive ability. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 09:04 AM Flag
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educational psychologist here: you are incorrect. all measure cognitive ability, without exception. this ability is influenced by various factors in young dcs including development, exposure and testing conditions, especially including the tester and how the dc is handled. the olsat is not given in a way to pull out answers from a non-forthcoming dc, and thus, some kids will not do as well with this format. some kids will do better with some testers who really pull for them, sometimes inappropriately, and beyond what is called for in the guidelines. so the OP's dc may have various factors that affect this constellation of scores. the idea that one test results in a score that we call IQ makes no difference whatsoever. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 11:14 AM Flag
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If you look at the operational definition for "intelligence" as tested by the SB or WPPSI you'll see that what they are testing is remarkably similar to the operational definition for cognition as tested by the OLSAT. So, you can call it whatever you w want. these are all just constructs - but it's beyond debate that the OLSAT is a lot like an IQ test. And no one ever said it was validated for use with this age group, so there's no point in throwing that in there to boost your argument; it's a moot point. The OLSAT is similar to an IQ test. Period. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 07:50 PM Flag
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np. I'm happy you agree so strongly with what I wrote to want to repeat it, but if you're going to quote people word for word it's considered poor form not to acknowledge it in some way. Even on an anonymous message board. Thx. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.31.08, 08:45 AM Flag
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OR here: When I said "they all measure the same thing", I meant all three - SB, ERB and OLSAT. SB and ERB are gonna agree because they are both good tests, while comparatively crappy one, OLSAT, is more likely to be off. The best estimate of child's IQ is SB given by psychologist, a little worse is abbreviated WIPPSI (ERB) given by well-trained non-pro, and by far the worst of the three is OLSAT given by poorly-trained teacher under time constraint of mass group testing. Kids that young cannot be tested accurately in such conditions, and there is no evidence that they are. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.06.08, 07:47 AM Flag
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Most are. Enough are. That's good enough. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.23.08, 01:14 PM Flag
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The OLSAT is multiple choice. How could that not be relevant? How can you test the ability to make connections and think creatively with a multiple choice test? YOu've posted before and never have an answer to this question. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.23.08, 02:38 PM Flag
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IQ tests that you as an adult take are multiple choice, too. The form of the test only matters if you want to consider the maturity of a child when it comes to taking tests. The questions and problems on all those tests that are asked assess the same more or less. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:05 AM Flag
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Actually that sounds like so many scores I've heard of last year. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 07:54 AM Flag
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OP. I suppose that the part I object to is that my DC -- who has all of these wonderful qualities (like all of our dcs) and actually does exceptional on iq tests, has no chance of going to anderson or any other G&T program. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 08:08 AM Flag
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Well, maybe the forces at work know that your dc wouldn't thrive at Anderson. Not every school is for every child no matter how high they score on an IQ tesst. KWIM? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 08:09 AM Flag
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what's "KWIM?" [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 08:10 AM Flag
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np - Know what I mean? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 08:10 AM Flag
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sounds dirty to me [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 08:08 PM Flag
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op. i prefer KWIMJ - know what i mean jellybean - but i see your point. just means we have to work that much harder to pay for all of this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 08:16 AM Flag
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firstly, your kid will do well in general ed. Secondly, you can take the test again for first grade. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 08:18 AM Flag
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No Hunter or private? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 08:19 AM Flag
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op -- didn't get into hunter. will be applying to private this fall. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 08:29 AM Flag
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You can try G&T again next year, there are first grade spots in most schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 08:31 AM Flag
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Every kid tests different. Our DC got a 97 on the SB and a 98 on the OLSAT/BRSA. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 08:36 AM Flag
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vba [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 02:04 PM Flag
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Our ds scored 99 on all three tests, but I have posted before that I know a few kids that made Hunter Round 2 and scored below cut-off on OLSAT. I also know one dc with an 88 SB/90 ERB who got a PERFECT score on the OLSAT. It is not an IQ test, but a school readiness test. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 08:58 AM Flag
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NP: I think that it's a joke calling it a "school readiness" test. I know quite a few kids in upper grades who are at the top of their classes, yet still bombed their OLSATs in G&T testing. Which is a better correlate as to how well they will do in school- the OLSATs or the teacher's evaluation? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 09:11 AM Flag
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these are just terms and really are not useful...if anything misnomers. these tests assess various cognitive functions. some give and IQ score, some don't. in 4 yos, they are all looking for school readiness and cognitive ability in one way or another. development, exposure and practice with concepts and testing format all come into play [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 11:17 AM Flag
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I know of 2 kids going to hunter who made nowhere near the olsat cutoff (low 80s and a high 70s). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 02:08 PM Flag
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maybe they are just not that smart, and sb was related to Janet jackson or something [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 07:30 PM Flag
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neither did jj [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.31.08, 01:26 PM Flag
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those kids at Hunter had the same SB tester. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:15 AM Flag
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not crazy at all. btw, i know plenty of kids who scored high 90s on SB and mid to low 80s on ERB, and vice versa. it's the vagaries of testing young kids. happens all the time. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 09:30 AM Flag
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Tests on children this young are a total crapshoot. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 11:18 AM Flag
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agree [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.30.08, 01:26 PM Flag
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Testing 4 year olds in so insane. I wish ALL our kids went to zoned schools K-2, "g&t" beginning in 3rd, with opportunity to test in for 4th or 5th. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.31.08, 08:57 AM Flag
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that sounds brilliant. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.06.08, 06:55 AM Flag
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I couldn't agree more and have posted that here, too. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.23.08, 01:27 PM Flag
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tritto [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.23.08, 02:43 PM Flag
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quatro [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.23.08, 06:18 PM Flag
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What do the kids who are reading and doing math several grades ahead of their peers in Kindergarten do when there are no gifted programs until 3rd grade? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 06:56 AM Flag
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I think this is a far more limited number than the vast majority in G&T (especially district programs). Perhaps you have add a few citywide programs (in other boroughs) that start in K, or you have fewer K-2 G&T classes, then expand programs in 3rd grade. Somehow many school districts have figured out how to do this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:28 AM Flag
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my K kid is reading many grades above peers. in gen ed. not an issue--at most schools, kids choose books to read from appropriate level. there are lots of other things to do as a group and then actual math, reading, and writing work is individualized. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:36 AM Flag
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I love when the voice of reason chimes in. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:37 AM Flag
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How is this different than testing into a G&T middle school for 6th grade instead? To late? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:06 AM Flag
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97 SB, 65 Olsat here [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.06.08, 07:02 AM Flag
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That stinks! So close to Hunter and not even in the game for any G&Ts! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.23.08, 05:53 PM Flag
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I am very sure OR's child is doing just fine wherever she ended up. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:06 AM Flag
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That's not very uncommon. Plenty of high scoring erb/sb testers experienced the OLSAT Split. There really are camps of people who believe the OLSAT is crappy,in some instances administered by persons of dubious qualifications and temperaments, age inappropriate for the kids tested in nyc and a poor indicator of true 'giftedness'(I'm in that tent and our child got the best possible score) and the camp that feel it is a measure of giftedness(as long as it gets their kid out of gen ed). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.23.08, 06:01 PM Flag
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It's also interesting how many of the 'surprise', lower-scoring OLSAT kids don't err on any of the BSRA ?s. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.23.08, 06:27 PM Flag
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just the opposite for us. dc pretty much aced the olsat but apparently couldn't pick out a triangle to save his life (which is just nuts). i thought about challenging the score, but figured what's the point. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.23.08, 06:48 PM Flag
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Have you tried to challenge the results? A friend of mine's child didn't do great on the BRSA and she put in an inquiry. It was a grading mistake and was fixed. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:10 AM Flag
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wow. i guess it's too late to challenge at this point. good to know, though. thanks. maybe he'll have a shot next year. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:39 AM Flag
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The BRSA is just an assessment on what your child knows. Shapes, colors, numbers, letters, etc. That part has absolutely nothing to do with the OLSAT. Since the DOE wants to test for learning deficiencies as well in the future the BRSA is a good tool for that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:08 AM Flag
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Fine, but why include the learning disablity test with the so called gifted test, then? Just test kids with both, but don't combine BRSA with OLSAT scores. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:14 AM Flag
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The BRSA is not a learning disability test per se. It can be used for that. It can also make sure that your child is on par with her peers when it comes to general knowledge. How is this not important when it comes to G&T assessment? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:27 AM Flag
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Our DC: SB 95, OLSAT 99, didn't take ERBs [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:17 AM Flag
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Ours was SB 96, OLSAT 99. It made sense to me because I think dd gets extra "points" for focus, ability to follow directions, etc. I agree that it's mostly an IQ test but I think that the big difference b/t those with high SB and high OLSAT and high SB and low OLSAT is ability to sit still and answer 128 questions. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 09.24.08, 07:42 AM Flag
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