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05.23.08, 05:28 AM NY Schools
99 replies
Did anyone read that story in the NY Times this morning about Little Red demanding $20K from a family that turned them down for a G&T? Wow, seems really cheesy to me. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
NY Schools 05.23.08, 05:28 AM Flag
 

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section? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 05:31 AM Flag
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metro. front page. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 05:33 AM Flag
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This article is illustrating what a rat race this is. You dont have to feel sorry for the family, but recognize that these are some heavy dice that people roll. 20k worth of insurance is a heavy premium. These people are not super wealthy. Especially for NYC. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 09:00 AM Flag
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Way to go Little Red, prove how family oriented you are. Teach them a lesson by gauging 20k. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 09:46 AM Flag
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In the article they cited the BOE who said testing can't begin till January 1st. Why? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:11 PM Flag
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np. Because that's the easiest way for the DOE to be sure all the dc taking the OLSAT are at east 4 yo. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:46 PM Flag
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>> least [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:47 PM Flag
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seems ridiculous since i am sure they had tons of kids waiting for that spot [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 05:32 AM Flag
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ITTTTTA. Seems like they're milking money from the people who can probably least afford it. I bet Dalton wouldn't have done this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 05:34 AM Flag
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can least afford it? they were planning to spend $26k per year on their kid's elementary school -- they're not the people who ''can least afford it.'' [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:40 AM Flag
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np: maybe they qualified for financial aid. clearly, it's better for them to save $100K+ by sending their daughter to g&t public school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:09 AM Flag
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maybe they did. still, they're better off than the majority of kids in public schools. it's hard to feel too much sympathy for them -- and by taking the fantastic free education they'll get at anderson (i'm assuming) they're saving a ton of $ they had otherwise been planning to spend. they're still better off, and have no reason to complain [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:40 AM Flag
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doesn't matter -- there's an interview process for a reason. and when they made a firm offer to that kid, other kids they would have liked as well took offers at other schools. there's not the same pool of available kids now -- and the whole point for everyone enrolling is that you get a cohesive class that has had thought and planning involved in creating [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:32 AM Flag
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np: do you honestly believe this? That the difference between the one four year old they picked and the four year old they will replace him/er with will make that much difference? That their predictive ability for creating a "cohesive class" is that specific? Really? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:44 AM Flag
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What do you think it is?? Keep in mind they don't have the same degree of latitude with some percentage of their class (siblings, and other early decision kids). They have a relatively small number of kids they need to balance in terms of gender/ages/personalities/learning styles. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:48 AM Flag
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It is the oppourtunity to pocket $20K with little/no effort. Plain and simple. (Well, that and I'm sure a little bit of Little Red pride...) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:06 AM Flag
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lr actually loses out by having a kid pull out this late in the game. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:41 AM Flag
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so you think there was an empty desk there this year? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:43 AM Flag
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no, but they had to choose from a different pool by this point [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:50 AM Flag
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they forgave $6k -- they didn't have to do that. the family should be grateful for that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:06 AM Flag
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I doubt they had tons of kids waiting for the spot. My bet is they were over-enrolled and were thrilled to lose a kid and get the tuition in the bargain. The admin there is getting sleazier every year. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:10 PM Flag
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yes but not defending the school..the mom waited until July to pull out of the contract. Many contracts have a blurb saying they must know of any change by June. She just took more time deciding btwn public and private. This is something you shouldn't drag your ass on [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 05:35 AM Flag
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Do you think LRS would hav ebehaved differently if they had been called in June? (I think not.) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:17 AM Flag
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maybe the kid got into the G&T off the w/l and they didn't get a spot until july? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:18 PM Flag
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the LREI contract does not have that blurb. They say reallly clearly that it's binding and no exceptions will be made. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:28 PM Flag
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I thought every privates expect to loose few after G&T notification. I guess they just don't want anybody to come after a month later. This teaches a lesson to us that as soon as we know about the spot, we should give up private ASAP... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 05:53 AM Flag
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A contract is a contract. Read what you sign and stand by it. Its that simple. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:27 AM Flag
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please. if you're in the nyc private school game, you are competent enough to read a contract. don't cry to the ny times because you get a better deal and want to weasel out of a contract [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:30 AM Flag
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i loved the consultant suggesting that little red offer up the spot on craigslist -- yeah, that will make them whole [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:30 AM Flag
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Sorry, but in light of the city's budget cuts for public schools, I'm just not feeling all that much sympathy for people who can afford private school. The family knew the cost, they weighed the cost/benefit, and decided that it was worth $20K in the long run. Big freaking deal. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:35 AM Flag
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i totally agree. i love how the article mentions how nice it would be if the doe could somehow coordinate their testing/notification schedules to help out those poor private school parents, too. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:38 AM Flag
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The NY Times now seems only to cater to the wealthy. It's pretty disgusting. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:42 AM Flag
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ITA. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 05:33 PM Flag
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np: yes, love how the author suggests that if the nycdoe were more like competitive businesses then everything would be better. It's true,if we cherry-picked our kids public schools would be awesome, we could put all of the behavior problem/special education/ell's in separate schools. All of this talk about "bad schools" because of "bad teachers" would be over. But that's not public education, is it? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:46 AM Flag
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I find it odd that people believe that NYCDOE -- which if it was a state would be larger than eight states -- should adjust its schedule to meet the privates' timeline. Get a friggin grip! There are over one millions students in over 1,400 schools. And THEY should worry about a few private school folks losing a deposit? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:55 AM Flag
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Hear, hear! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:04 AM Flag
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ITD. It's the families who lose deposits who are hurt. There's no reason why the schedules can't be dovetailed. Signed, public school mom who lost a $3,200 deposit 9 years ago and can't let it go. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:09 AM Flag
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I agree BUT the dovetailing needs to happen from the privates not from the DOE. It is just unreasonable to expect that kind of accommodation from such a huge organization for such a tiny subpopulation. So the question is, why won't the privates accommodate the DOE? I think pocketing $20K every time they f* a family with no actual (or very little actual) cost to them is the answer... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:21 AM Flag
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Yes, but you really want a system that manages more than a million students to work around a handful of families? This is not how a public institution works. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:23 AM Flag
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the public schools can't begin testing until january, and it takes a month to administer all the tests, and then a couple more to process everything -- at least. unless the private schools change to accommodate the public schedule (which will not happen), the are in fact a bunch of reasons why they can't be dovetailed. and why in the world SHOULD the doe change a policy that affects every public school student in the city merely to accommodate a privileged few? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:24 AM Flag
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why on earth can't they begin testing befor January? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:37 AM Flag
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because they are processing students and beginning the process of educating over a million children before that. since all currently enrolled k and pre-k children are to be tested in school beginning next year, this is not something that can be started in the first weeks or even months of school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:40 AM Flag
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NP: No, that's not the answer. They must wait to start testing till January so that all children of that fall's K class have turned 4. (through the cutoff of 12/31) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:15 PM Flag
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Just so you know. Back before DOE insisted on centralizing the admissions process, private schools and public schools notifications were only a couple of weeks apart. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:46 AM Flag
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typical privileged attitude -- let the masses work around MY schedule, so that i can keep my options open [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:26 AM Flag
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Why on earth would the private schools change their dates to coordinate since the DOE changes things every year AND even the dates they do give out get pushed back all the time! Until the DOE gets its sh*t together, I don't see why privates should change anything. In a personal relationship this would be called "enabling". [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:14 AM Flag
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they don't need to either -- but too bad for the people trying to straddle admissions and get the best deal for their kids. ultimately the public school system does not exist to help the privileged few game as best they can with no financial downside [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:22 AM Flag
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I agree, the private schools should coordinate and adjust their schedules to fit the DOE's schedule. They are smaller and richer and should be able to accomplish this must easier than the underfunded DOE. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 11:52 AM Flag
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^^^ much [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 11:53 AM Flag
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As a family who *read* our contracts, and weighed our options, and pulled out of where we had accepted and put down a deposit in time to only lose the deposit, I'd actually be pissed off if LREI caved at this point. Lots of us understood what we were getting into -we've been having to essentially roll the dice and hope that the high G&T score translates into the desired citywide, because it wasn't acceptable to us to lose the full year. Others will make a different decision. But I'll be mad if private schools end up catering to the dimwits who couldn't read contracts and figure out their odds. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:45 AM Flag
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did you read the article? Those people did not come across as dimwits. They came across as people who were ready to make a big sacrifice for their child and had a fortunate opportunity. That does not mean that LR (or any other private) while legally entitled to keep the deposit is ethically justified in doing so. (And also going after a year's tuition.) I find your, "I did it this way so anyone who didn't should get screwed" mentality small minded. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:35 AM Flag
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they came across as people with a lot of options available to their child whining because they didn't want to honor their obligations. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:37 AM Flag
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we're gonna just disagree on this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:42 AM Flag
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OR here: I'm not sure if you've seen them, but these are not long contracts. We have a few of them - none are longer than 2 pages, and they aren't written in complicated legal-ese. I don't want anyone to get screwed. But we had to make sacrifices (certainty of a spot at private school), by pulling out of our contract in time, in order to avoid an additional $20k+. It was extremely clear from the contract that this is what needed to be done. You don't understand how I would be annoyed if schools overlooked it for others who were sloppy in the process? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:42 AM Flag
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Why do you assume they were sloppy? Maybe they were unsure? Plus, lets be honest, when they were signing that LREI contract it isn't like they had any choice. The privates are in a uniquely powerful position here and I think they are taking advantage. They did not spend or lose $20k on this kid. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:51 AM Flag
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why didn't they have faith in their kid? nobody held a gun to their heads -- they could have skipped private altogether and just expected a high olsat [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:56 AM Flag
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I agree. I think the point to argue then is whether there should be contracts, and the terms of the contracts, and whether they're ethical. But once a family sees and reads that contract, then they've decided they'll play the game, and, frankly, are implicitly supporting the contract system. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:56 AM Flag
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they paid $20K for certainty -- a guarantee of a fantastic option for their child, regardless of how she did on the test. this certainty is well worth it for many parents -- and clearly for them as well, as they read the contract before signing and still chose to. what they have now is buyer's remorse. you can't ask your life insurance company for a refund just because you didn't die last year (even though they incurred no actual cost by insuring you) -- they don't get a refund on their school insurance either. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:03 AM Flag
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That isn't how insurance works. I say it is more like a restaurant taking a charge card for a reservation and then when you cancel, they seat somebody for the meal but still charge you for the dinner for two. Then they tell you you should feel grateful because they didn't charge you for dessert. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:12 AM Flag
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but if you don't like the restaurant's policy of charging wether you actually end up eating there or no, you don't need to make a reservation. once you decide that the downside (being charged no matter what) is fine with you and you sign up, you have made your choice. in this case, having a guaranteed meal somewhere is what they decided was worth signing up. no need to blame the restaurant later, just because they were able to make better plans. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:18 AM Flag
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see, I would argue it is like there are 1,400 McDonalds in the city and a dozen restaurants that sell good fresh food, maybe a piece of fish. You are a vegetarian so if you get a reservation at one of the good ones you take it (I mean a diet of french fries and Fillet o' Fish...) Then McDonalds announces it has a restaurant with a salad bar and tuna AND they call and say you get to eat there. Then scenario above. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:47 AM Flag
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so what? you still made an agreement with the restaurant before you changed your mind. the restaurant is entitled to enforce the agreement. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 09:05 AM Flag
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I think that not-for-profit institutions should be held to a different standard. You want to behave like a for profit business, then start paying taxes. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 09:26 AM Flag
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actually, you can buy tuition insurance. I wonder if it would cover this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.24.08, 08:09 AM Flag
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GIVE ME A BREAK! Here is a family with sufficient resources to pay private school tuition.... then they have the extraordinary luck to get into a CITYWIDE G&T program? Come on. There are so many families whose children are equally bright as theirs, and don't get a spot at a citywide and cannot afford private! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:50 AM Flag
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i know -- the have a host of options, and are still whining about what they've "lost." [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:56 AM Flag
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^^they [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:56 AM Flag
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Have a heart. They are free lance writers and artists. It was probably a sizable chunk for them. When it comes to our kids, many almost break the bank to provide private over bad publics. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:09 PM Flag
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And a lot of people would love to be freelance artists and writers! But then wouldn't be able to afford the material things that are important to them. If private school is so important to them, they may want to rethink their career choices. (And there's no way they should move out of their careers just to be able to afford private school in my view). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.24.08, 06:27 AM Flag
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People dont go into finance because they love it, generally. For most, its to be able to afford things like . . . private school! People lucky enough to be freelance artists make hefty sacrifices to do so. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.24.08, 06:33 AM Flag
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The city is under no obligations to arrange it's schedule for people who are considering opting out of public education. This couple losing money because they took made a decision based on the various options at their disposal, is not anyone's problem but their own. They signed a contract. Anyone who puts a deposit down on something and signs their name to legal documents without looking them over has no business complaining about it after the fact. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:17 AM Flag
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On the one hand I think it's ridiculous that the school should accept tuition payments if they have filled the spot. And I'm sure they could. On the other hand, I have a hard time feeling too sorry for these people. Finally, any suggestion that the DOE should change it's deadlines to accommodate the private schools is outrageous. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:37 AM Flag
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First, the private schools aren't the ones changing the dates and process every year, so it's entirely feasible that the DOE could better coordinate its decision dates (the way it used to!). Second, changing the dates would better accommodate the FAMILIES applying, not the private schools - they'll get their seats filled no matter what. But the DOE doesn't give a sh*t about trying to accommodate anybody. Third, if the DOE continues to work so hard to accommodate nobody, they'll lose many of the upper middle income families (like us) that gave lots of time and money to the public schools over the years and helped some of become the tt schools they are now perceived as being. Public schools can't become or stay tt without lots and lots of parental support, which includes time and money. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:59 AM Flag
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It isn't that the DOE doesn't want to accommodate the families. It is structurally impossible for them to do what you suggest. In the old days it could be done because there was no centralized/standardized process. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 09:03 AM Flag
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you are annoying -- the public schools ARE accommodating everybody, EXCEPT the people who for most purposes are not choosing public schools. you're complaining that it's too hard for the privates to work to support their clients, but the publics should take what works for everyone else and change it merely to help the wealthy few save some bucks while weighing their non-public options. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 09:08 AM Flag
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and frankly, the only ay they are NOT accommodating the private parents is by not helping them get their money back from the privates. the doe IS making a spot available to the private kids who qualify -- so there you go, they are just as well-served as everyone else. if you don't like the way private schools handle their tuition contracts, take it up with them. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 09:13 AM Flag
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Enjoy your time in the public school system!! I guarantee you'll be as cynical about the DOE's equanimity and goodness after a year or so as I am after almost 10 yrs. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 09:38 AM Flag
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The schools that are failing are not the "TT" publics with an active middle class parent body. Last time I checked they had no problem finding qualified applicants. Indeed, this article is about a family that chose public after beind admitted to a private. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 09:24 AM Flag
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I wish we could go to a private. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 09:40 AM Flag
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Many do but that's not the DOE's problem and it should not change it's admissions procedure because there are a very small portion of people who look at both public and private. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 09:58 AM Flag
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No, it should just change them because, "Hey, it's another school year. Let's mess with the parents some more!" [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 11:20 AM Flag
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I'm with you there sister! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 11:26 AM Flag
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I personally think that a school should only ask for the balance if they cannot fill in the slot - that determination could be made in early September when school starts. They have already pocketed the deposit back in February and that money can be viewed as compensation for the extra hassle of finding another student. In the current environment, many private schools seem to forget that they are in the business of educating young children and helping to set the moral values for them (such as accomodations and compromises can be found between reasonable adults, not everything is life has be be driven by lawyers and contracts), and not behave like a company traded on the stock exchange. I suppose it is a sign of the times: all about $, profits, arms'length relationships driven by contracts and lawyers. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 09:13 AM Flag
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As a parent at LREI, I'm fully bummed about what happened to the Benders, but am confused on one point: the school explicitly offers tuition protection insurance. For a small fee (5% maybe?) you can buy your right to cancel the contract within certain dates. If you were still waiting to hear from a G&T, wouldn't you pay the premium if canceling might have been an option? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 11:23 AM Flag
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Nice of the NYT to conveniently omit that little detail. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 11:40 AM Flag
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Seriously, puts a whole new spin on the scenario. Makes these people look like they want to have their cake and eat it too instead of, as the NYT portrayed them, being stuck between a rock and a hard place. But at the same time, the school could have pointed that out to the reporter and instead issued a no comment. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 12:06 PM Flag
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the reason they didn't point that out is that you can't use the insurance in case you change your mind. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 02:20 PM Flag
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Wow, I didn't feel that bad for them in the first place. Now I think they are idiots. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 11:44 AM Flag
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I'm not sure about the LREI contract, but *most* tuition protection plans dont kick in until the child has been attending for a few consecutive weeks. They don't cover this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 12:35 PM Flag
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exactly. otherwise, too many people would take the insurance then back out after they heard from public school. doesn't make sense. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 01:49 PM Flag
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Tuition insurance does NOT give you the right to change your mind because you get into a school you'd rather go to - it's only if you start going, and decide the school is not the right school for your dc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 01:56 PM Flag
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Insurance doe not cover changing your mind about a school, whether your child attends or not. It covers unexpected withdrawal due to job transfer of parent or for medical reasons (child or parent) and, to a lesser degree, some cases of child being expelled from a school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 05:09 PM Flag
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tuition insurance does not cover this scenario. more for illness or moving due to relocation, etc. choosing another school in the city, public or private, does not count or give you a pay out from your insurance [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:32 PM Flag
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Your child has to attend the school for 14 days before the tuition insurance kicks in. It's of no help at all in this scenario. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:42 PM Flag
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Hi LREI PR person [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 07:39 PM Flag
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That could be us soon depending on how the G&T assignments turn out. I figured we'd be on the hook for the year, anyway, though. It's still cheaper in the long run to go public. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:22 PM Flag
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Link? It's too late to get a paper [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:27 PM Flag
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/nyregion/23bigcity.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=little+red&st=nyt&oref=slogin [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:32 PM Flag
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I can understand [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 08:11 PM Flag
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