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05.22.08, 12:33 PM General Topics
101 replies
My relative who lives in a park slope brownstone has offered to legally rent me his basement apartment for 1 dollar so I can claim residency in the area and send our dc to PS 321 instead of our terrible zoned school. Should I do it? [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
General Topics 05.22.08, 12:33 PM Flag
 

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Sure, why not? That sounds legit enough. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:35 PM Flag
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we wouldn't actually be living there though--its way too small for our family. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:36 PM Flag
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send your child to live there by him/herself. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:42 PM Flag
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lol [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:57 PM Flag
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Why would you want to do something so selfish and unethical? The school is for students entitled to go there, not cheaters. This is why the schools are overcrowded. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:50 PM Flag
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np: agree with this. It's a bad lesson for your kids, and you've got to be prepared to get caught. Another parent might turn you in. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:51 PM Flag
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to many goody goodys here [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:58 PM Flag
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I think that the key word here is "entitled." Property values in the 321 school district are high and I suppose you think that you should only be able to go to 321 if you can afford" it. It sounds like she is entitled based on her status of her relative and the offer. Everyone does what they need to in NY to secure a good education for their children. I think that you should go for it and don't feel guilty! Some of the best students at 321 are there based on the altruism of others. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 04:30 PM Flag
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If the city CANNOT provide decent free education for all, then I think we are entitled to do what we need to do to secure this education. Place the blame on the system, not the family! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 07:24 PM Flag
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They could catch you, PS 29 has been doing random checks, actually sending people to apts. But they can't send someone to everyone, so still not likely you'd be caught. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:35 PM Flag
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yeah I would. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:37 PM Flag
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How would you deal w/ playdates etc? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:37 PM Flag
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I don't know. haven't thought that far in advance yet. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:44 PM Flag
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Every parent in the class will figure it out at some point, and it only takes one who is annoyed at the overcrowding sitch to bust you. Then you have to explain to dc that she's going to a new school because mommy and daddy got caught doing something wrong? I wouldn't do it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:51 PM Flag
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sure, way to teach your kid ethical values [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:37 PM Flag
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the school system is unethical, wealhy nabs should not have best schools in an ethical world [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.26.08, 08:05 PM Flag
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they've started following kids home [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:44 PM Flag
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no they haven't. Who has the time? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:44 PM Flag
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I don't know about 321, but I know for a fact they are doing it at 234 and 41. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:51 PM Flag
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In PS 29, it's about 1 in 25 new students. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:45 PM Flag
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you'd be teaching your child to lie [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:50 PM Flag
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No one will ask your child for his/her address, and no one will every make them feel uncomfortable. Park Slope is a community of people who have great compassion and understanding of people of lesser means or fewer advantages. I am absolutely sure that no one will follow your kid home...preposterous! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 04:35 PM Flag
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Bad karma. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:51 PM Flag
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are your kids better/more deserving than the other kids in your own neighborhood? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:53 PM Flag
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oh, like you don't want the best for your kids too? doesn't everyone? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:58 PM Flag
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yes, but we don't lie and steal to get it [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:59 PM Flag
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eh. OP's taxes are going to all NYS schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:00 PM Flag
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all that tax money is not doled out fairly, but that still doesn't make stealing right [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:10 PM Flag
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OP is stealing. she pays taxes and they fund schools. she is not charge of doling them out [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:11 PM Flag
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^^^OP is NOT stealing I meant [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:11 PM Flag
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an unfair system puts people in the situation of having to cheat and lie to get basic services like a decent eduaction. I don't begrudge people who do this sort of thing. The real cheaters are people like Bloomberg and Klein who fritter our tax money away on "school quality assessments" that cost millions and other giveaways to their corporate friends. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:13 PM Flag
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the reason certain schools suck is largely because there aren't enough parents in those neighborhoods who care. Sure, you can go cheat and get something better for your kid. But you're just part of the problem. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:01 PM Flag
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right bc I can change everything all by myself and my kid should suffer for it too [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:01 PM Flag
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or you can just not try. Face it, you choose to live in the city you live in (I do, too)-- no one is forcing your kids to suffer, except you. You can cheat, if that's what you feel best doing, but don't try to climb up on the moral high ground while doing it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:11 PM Flag
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no one is doing that. seems to me OP is struggling with the choice of putting her kids in a better school or staying in her own zone, not bragging about it. it may be a lie but for a very understandable reason [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:14 PM Flag
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that is not the reason that certain schools suck. The parents care-it is just that they are poor, largely don't have college educations (or even high school), are barely making ends meet and have no political clout. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:09 PM Flag
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that's part of it, yes, but to deny that a lack of parental involvement is part of it is terribly naive. I work with those kids-- I know what a lot of their parents are like. MANY of them are not in the PTA, attending school board meetings, helping with homework, and all the other trappings that are standard in the "better" schools. Lots of those kids are on their own, as are the underfunded teachers. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:13 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:17 PM Flag
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which is exactly why it's so tremendously valuable when parents who don't have those obstacles stick around and try to make a difference in the schools, instead of bailing. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:19 PM Flag
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I posted about this below--OP [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:24 PM Flag
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That's crap. Former teacher here, and it's school leadership that is key. Parents alone cannot do it, unless, like at PS 8, the force out the old principal and use political influence at Board of Ed to hire a good one. OP is right not to sacrifice her child on the altar of YOUR personal beliefs. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 05:48 PM Flag
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are the kids in Park Slope more desreving than my kids or the other kids in my neighborhood? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:03 PM Flag
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np: No, but further screwing the other kids in your neighborhood isn't helping. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:05 PM Flag
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whether my kids goes to 321 or not will have no impact on the kids in my neighborhood. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:10 PM Flag
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Actually, it does. Bad zones usually have a high ratio of kids with parents who are not involved in their education and their schools. People then flee the zone, and the situation becomes even worse. You are a parent who would be involved with both. I think it sucks that the BOE has made the system this way, but people fleeing zones and people lying to get into others helps perpetuate it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:13 PM Flag
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If I didn't also have to work full time and take care of a toddler maybe I could dedicate myself to pulling together a group of parents and completely turning around our zoned school-- a decrepit building, a complete lack of arts programming and a totally misguided focus on test prep, test prep, test prep, and an unresponsive and entrenched administration. But realistically, I just can't do it. Or at least I certainly can't do it all in the next year or two so that the impact would be felt by my dc. Maybe I should dedicate my lift to school reform, but in the mean time--what am I going to do for my dc in September? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:22 PM Flag
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You are going to either live in a tiny apt. in a good zone, suck it up at the school you are zoned for, or leave the city. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:26 PM Flag
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AMEN!! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 02:42 PM Flag
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Your choices: Send the kid to the school you're entitled to; pay for private; move, or cheat. Personally, I think they all sound better than cheating, not only for ethical reasons but because I wouldn't want the stress-- the risk of getting caught, of having to uproot my kid mid-year, etc. But no one can make this choice but you. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:26 PM Flag
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Does DH also work full-time? Why can't you afford to live in a tiny place in a good zone? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 02:58 PM Flag
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I probably would [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 12:57 PM Flag
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I decided not to do this b/c it felt wrong to tell my dc to lie, and we had a decent alternative. Re ethical issue, though, how is this different than renting an apartment in a good district, moving for a year, then moving back? If my alternatives had been bad, and I couldn't afford the move-for-a-year thing (which someone I know actually did), I might have felt I had to do the fake address thing. Am very sympathetic to those who want to do the best they can for their dc's education. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:09 PM Flag
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If you move back, you are no longer zoned for the school...right? You'd only have the spot for your child the year that you lived there. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:12 PM Flag
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no-once you are in a school you can stay in that school even if you move. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:18 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 02:45 PM Flag
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Don't know what the rules are for an unzoned school, but it's in DOE regs that after a certain point (K or 1st grade), if you reside in catchment/zone of a school for 1 year, you can move and your dc will remain entitled to stay at that school till the terminal garde at that school. "Ask Judy" has written about this on Inside Schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 03:12 PM Flag
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^^^grade [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 03:12 PM Flag
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But if you never live at the address you say you did, then pretend that you moved to your real address a year later, you can still be kicked out at any time. Just because you make it through a year without being caught doesn't mean you're home free. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 03:37 PM Flag
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True (but likelihood of DOE being motivated and able to prove it after the fact seems remote). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 03:46 PM Flag
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It's actually the schools themselves that are now motivated to do it. Overcrowding is a huge burden. There's an incentive for them to out the cheaters. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.26.08, 08:16 PM Flag
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What is your zoned school? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:18 PM Flag
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I thought about doing that w/ 321, but it didn't pan out & I am glad. The funniest part of it is that doing that would make all my school panic & stalking parent coordinators for the past 6 months all for naught. My dd is going to PS 10 in the fall. Anybody else? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:20 PM Flag
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it is a legal apartment just sitting vacant and you would live there? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:27 PM Flag
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if they would live there, there would be no dilemma. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 01:30 PM Flag
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they should move in during the week and go home on weekends. they can establish residency in district after a year and then be legitimately in 321. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 02:39 PM Flag
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OP says it's not big enough to actually live there during the week. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 02:43 PM Flag
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np: If it was so important to her, she could suck it up. She doesn't want to bother. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 02:59 PM Flag
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i have to say, i kind of agree. how could it be part of a brownstone and not an entire floor? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 03:00 PM Flag
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Agree. 3 of us live in 800 s/f so that dc can go to a good school. You have to be willing to make sacrifices. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 03:01 PM Flag
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Right. OP is just entitled. People make sacrifices for what we think is important. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 03:02 PM Flag
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that doesn't make you a resident [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 03:18 PM Flag
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I think that a lot of people on this board believe in "entitlement." Meaning, if they can afford to buy an expensive place in the right school district then they somehow "deserve" the good school. If you want to talk about ethics then perhaps you should question the ethics of the education system that creates gross inequalities in schools because funding comes from property values and parental fundraising. I think that the OP should make her decision based on what is right for her child. As I said in a post above, some of the best students are from families that had to bend the rules to get their kids into the school, and the students are well loved by both other students and their parents. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 04:48 PM Flag
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I don't think that at all. I think the system sucks. But I think cheating is just as bad. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 05:41 PM Flag
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Why is she cheating? Because she doesn't live there? By using the word "cheating" you are bring into question her sense of what is fair. Is it fair that she can't afford a 1.1 million dollar three bedroom in PS? I question your definition of "cheating." I think that for people to get up on their high and mighty horses and talk about what they "deserve" or are "entitled" to when it comes to the education of a child should really question their own sense of what is right and wrong. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 05:55 PM Flag
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Cheating because she is knowingly breaking the rules. And I couldn't afford to be in the good school zone, so we moved to NJ. Because it beats my kid getting thrown out of school when we get caught (as happened to several families last year in PS29). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 05:57 PM Flag
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really? that is awful! poor kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 06:18 PM Flag
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It is terrible. I would never out the kids I know of, but it's hard to swallow that the parents aren't getting punished. We can't ALL break the rules, even though we'd like to. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 06:43 PM Flag
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The parents should be taken out in back and spanked. Then we should drain all of the money out of their measly savings and give it directly to those who are living in the zone and suffering because of the presence of those freeloading out-of-zoners! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 06:54 PM Flag
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ITA. This is a relaly thoughtful and intelligent comment. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 06:41 PM Flag
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That's not entitlement. It's called playing by the rules. What OP and what you are suggesting is decidedly NOT playing by the rules. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 05:45 PM Flag
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Let me tell you a story about the rules. When I was a child, my parents drove a Mercedes. One time, my father accidentally drove past a stop sign without stopping. A police officer was parked at the intersection and witnessed the entire episode. The cop did nothing and I remember my father turning to me and saying, "It's because of the car." I think that we all break rules. The question is...what is at stake? I think that in the question of providing a good education for a child and lying about an address, the good education wins. However, many of the posters above were extremely critical of the posters ethics and sense of morality which is just veiled elitism. I truly hope that the poster isn't exposed to people like that in Park Slope at PS 321 where I hope she sends her child. It's enough for all of us to be exposed to it here. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 06:11 PM Flag
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np: ita. well said. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 05:59 PM Flag
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Would anyone commute from 321 district to go to Anderson? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 05:39 PM Flag
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unless your kid is a social pariah, you'll get caught [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 06:01 PM Flag
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Do it. Pay no attention to the self righteous posters who probably have not been faced with the tough decision of sending their kid a crappy zoned school. Do what is best for your child. It is easier said than done to put your kid in a terrible zoned school and try to change it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 06:43 PM Flag
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Of course some of us have. I was zoned for PS 38, didn't get the variance at 261, so we decided to move to NJ. I might punch Joel Klein in the face should I ever met him but I'm not a cheater or a liar. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 06:48 PM Flag
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Not everyone has the option to move. They may not be able to afford it or be in some other way tied to the current place they live. So its easy to be judgemental when you don't know someone's circumstances. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 06:56 PM Flag
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I might accept that is sometimes the case. But I truly doubt it for this OP. She could cram her family into the little apt. in the good zone for a year to establish residency if she wanted to. She just doesn't want to be inconvenienced. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 06:59 PM Flag
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I think that your situation sucks. Given your situation, I think that you made an elegant choice. However, I am sure you understand the OP's struggle. I think that very few people would actually choose some amorphous, ill-defined sense of justice over the welfare of their own child...given the choice. I doubt I would. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 07:21 PM Flag
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I'm just questioning whether OP actually has choices. She hasn't tried applying for a variance to a school that is better than her zoned one (though might not be a top one like 321). She complains that her relative's apt is too small, yet I know people living in 1 bedrooms to be in a good zone. Etc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 07:23 PM Flag
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exactly! it's the entire basement of a brownstone! but it's too small for her to live there legally? she wants to have her cake and eat it too. live in some sprawling place she no doubt paid nothing for in a crappy zone and send her dc to a great school without actually living in the zone. well, you know what? it doesn't work that way. tough crap, op. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.26.08, 08:14 PM Flag
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PS321 is already grossly overcrowded. Not sure why you'd want to send your kid to a grossly overcrowded school. Also, it's ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, it's not that complicated. Go to your neighborhood school and let your kid make friends with your neighbors. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 08:15 PM Flag
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my dd goes to PS 11, btw. Is that considered bad too? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 08:17 PM Flag
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Elementary school are your foundational years -- why establish a shaky foundation by sending your kid to a "terrible school"? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 08:36 PM Flag
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Everyone does this. You could work the system, grieve and get your child ito 321 that way, or you could work the system in a legal but unethical way, it's all the same. That said, you should aim higher than 321. It's grant-driven, which means it's educationally inconsistent by and large, and it's really a status school for know-nothings. You'd be better off tryng to place your child in 230 and then going for G&T there. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 09:11 PM Flag
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i am curious to know what you mean by grant-driven and how that might contribute to educational inconsistency. not wanting to challenge. genuinely curious. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 09:18 PM Flag
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The admnistration there secures a great deal of additional funding by grant proposals. That's great, except grants have conditions. So from year-to-year, they'll have to tailor instruction to meet the requirements of the grants they've won. They're well-funded but beholden to the whims of those giving the money. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.22.08, 09:27 PM Flag
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np and not a 321 parent: DO you actually know that any of these grants have led to changes in instruction? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:46 AM Flag
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there's no way you can "work the system" and get a dc into 321 given the new rules and that there are no variances now. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.26.08, 08:18 PM Flag
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One point not really addressed is that the apartment, as it is described in this post, is not a legal apartment. The ground floor of a brownstone is at or partially below grade. That means it is impossible that a basement apartment is a legal residence. Now you can argue the ethics of cheating to beat a system you think is unfair BUT at least call it what it is. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:33 AM Flag
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Sad when a kid who actually lives in that neighborhood can't attend their own school because you decided to be dishonest [ Reply | More
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General Topics 05.23.08, 06:38 AM Flag
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