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07.18.08, 15:25 PM NY Schools
87 replies
Just reading the posts from today. What a bunch of losers. Someone says that a spot may be given to a gen ed kid, and the vultures are all over it crying foul. Public outcry, indeed! This is the one aspect of the public school experience I could do without. You sound like you live behind the iron curtain, circa 1970. what is wrong with you people? If a kid who scored 90, who lives in ps166 catchment, but didn't get a 99/98, so didn't get a spot in the G&T there, now has an opportunity to go there to balance the classes at the school, why on earth would you take the DOE to task. I mean there are policies, but then there needs to be a little flexibility to allow schools to function, and to give an occasional opportunity to the poor kid in the zone. Maybe its a kid from the projects who got a 91, but still ended up in gen ed. someone releases a spot, and prinicipal sticks that kid there. I am fine with it. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
NY Schools 07.18.08, 03:25 PM Flag
 

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kid in the zone. Maybe its a kid from the projects who got a 91, but still ended up in gen ed. someone releases a spot, and principal sticks that kid there. I am fine with it. You guys sound like you would hunt him down. It is truly sick what it has come to in this city. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:27 PM Flag
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and maybe it's not. maybe it's just a dc who is lucky enough to attend a gen ed where a g&t is housed and who gets a spot when someone who scored a 97 and tried to get in was rejected. i'm not saying the score-based system is flawless or that dcs who wind up winners are any better or smarter than those who are s/o. but if the doe is going to say the system is fair, transparent and score-based, they better not change horses midstream. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:42 PM Flag
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this would not be changing horses mid stream. this would be an example of a school having a tiny bit of flexibility to ensure a better experience for everyone at the school. I think it makes sense, and I think the DOE should just come out and say that it would be a possibility so that no one can accuse them of not being transparent. It is fair imo, because it is for the good of the school, and it impacts only a couple of people here and there. You need to learn to live with minor allowances for the greater good. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:47 PM Flag
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how is letting the gen ed dc in instead of someone who earned the right to go there making it a better experience for everyone at the school? seriously, what is your anser to that? why is a school improved because a dc was moved from gen ed to g&t and how does this make EVERYONE's experience better? it doesn't. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:51 PM Flag
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because the doe does not want w/ls, and hundreds of people moving around destablizing the system. but they do want to have 25 kids in each class, rather than 27 and 23. that would be good to move kids around within the school as long as they made the cut off. also, more people will opt for the gen eds of schools with G&Ts if this is a possibility, thereby improving the schools overall. its a no brainer, and people like you are just ridiculous trouble makers looking for a cause. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:55 PM Flag
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you haven't answered my question. we're not talking about what's easier for the doe. you stated it's better for the school. and you don't opt for a gen ed. you're either zoned or you're not. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:05 PM Flag
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its better for the school to have similar class sizes. imagine you have 30 in gen ed and 20 in G&T. you also have 5 kids in the Gen ed who scored above 90. I say move them over so the classes are balanced. kind of a catchment policy for those couple of spots, for balancing only. also, let it be by lottery by doe, so some families aren't chosen over others by principal if you want. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:07 PM Flag
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Because it leaves the principal of a school a little more options to run his school better. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:07 PM Flag
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np: also creates some fluidity and crossover between G&T and gen ed which may be better for sense of community. especially at a place like ps166 where most of the gen ed kids are from the projects. good for the doe. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:10 PM Flag
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i actually think it would create more tension, not less. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:17 PM Flag
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IDA. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:19 PM Flag
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imagine all the gen ed dcs hoping for one of the two spots at the g&t. how will they decide who gets it? what if it goes to the one white dc? or what if it doesn't? why should they gen ed dcs feel like they have to audition? who is going to determine the selection criteria? now there is tension between g&t and gen ed. this would create tension among the gen ed students and families themselves. because there are no guidelines, people are bound to get suspicious. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:23 PM Flag
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make it a lottery and be done. no biggie. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:25 PM Flag
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I remember many many years ago, when Anderson was still a part of PS 9, hearing that PS 9 G&T kids were moved to Anderson periodically and that Renaissance kids were moved to the G&T program. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 06:26 PM Flag
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Kids who moved from PS 9 G&T to Anderson when Anderson was a program applied like everyone else and got the same scrutiny as applicants from the outside. SB test, onsite, teacher recommendations, the works. I think the path from Renaissance to G&T might have been more discretionary. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.20.08, 07:09 AM Flag
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Not true, there was definitely preference for PS9 kids for Anderson MS at the beginning. That's long gone though. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.20.08, 10:31 AM Flag
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i don't see that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:14 PM Flag
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I am with you. I bet those folks that cry foul are the ones that think that intra-percentile lottery is not fair. Those numbers, I tell you, are trophies for some. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:29 PM Flag
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ITTTA! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:30 PM Flag
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It was the DOE that said it would all be transparent and above-board. The DOE should have had waitlists to fill spots. It was obvious all along. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:30 PM Flag
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The DOE did not want w/ls. People would still be moving around, and that is too unstable for the entire system. But to move one or two kids who made the cutoff, but who did not get in but are committed to go to the school already is just fine. you need to stop clinging to this crazy POV. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:32 PM Flag
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you are smart! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:34 PM Flag
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I don't have a kid in this race. I'm just saying that the DOE screwed up and should have thought this through. They don't have waitlists for Specialized HS's because they KNOW from experience how many to oversubscribe by. If they were flying blind this year, then they should have maintained a waitlist until they have the ability to know how to place kids to eliminate the need for one. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:35 PM Flag
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How in the hell did the DOE screw up? So there are a couple of spots available. Let the principal take care of that. The DOE had past numbers to get a good guess on those schools that needed to be oversubscribed (like NEST, for example). Do you have any proof that next year's K class at a concrete school will be almost empty? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:41 PM Flag
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When did I ever say there is an empty class? Chill. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:44 PM Flag
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you make it sound like flying blind and having a few open spots requires a wait list. I disagree. If there are G&T kids in that particular school sitting in gen ed the principal can move them into the G&T program. That's cool. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:47 PM Flag
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When there are hundreds and hundreds of families that followed the rules that the DOE said were ironclad? That's why people are getting mad. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:49 PM Flag
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Those people should take poster's advise above and chill. Nothing is fair in life. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:50 PM Flag
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^^^make that hundreds and hundreds of shut out families... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:50 PM Flag
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DOE said nothing was ironclad. said there would be no w/ls, and there aren't. but if moving two kids who made the cutoff but didn't get in from gen ed to G&T so that one class is not over or under subscribed, then so be it. not the same thing as hundreds of people playing musical chairs. those are the breaks, ya know? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:52 PM Flag
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what rules were broken? If your kid made the cut-off she has the right on a spot in a G&T. You never had the right to be at any specific school. Those were the rules. Everybody played by those rules. In the end there are a few spots open somewhere. They will go to new kids just moved to NYC, maybe some are handed out by the discretion of the principal. As long as those children are qualified using the OLSAT/BRSA there is nothing that can be said against that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:53 PM Flag
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I agree. DOE does not have to answer to the crazies for every kid in the system. this is totally reasonable, and any judge would see it that way. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:57 PM Flag
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you said they screwed up, and they did not. there needs to be a tiny bit of flexibility, and the principals can decide these minor matters. sheesh. go back to the communist state if you cannot deal with it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:50 PM Flag
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how is this communist, exactly? you throw this term around a lot. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:54 PM Flag
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the insistence on rules, the ferreting out and public outcry associated with any bit of necessary flexibility, the accusations of corruption,etc. sounds like people I know who grew up in communist eastern europe. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:13 PM Flag
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insistence on rules is communism? huh. who knew. i thought that was any form of government that wasn't sheer anarchy. but i guess since you know people who grew up in eastern europe, you must know what you're talking about. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:20 PM Flag
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insistence at this level, where people are certain someone is getting something over on them (even when in all liklihood they got a spot) and creating trouble is what I mean. there is nothing against the general rules in letting a bit of flexibility to balance classes so that w/ls can be avoided. any reasonable person who lives in a free society understands this. any educated person who is an adult and understands how the world works that is. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:24 PM Flag
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yes, any person who disagrees with you must be a 5 y/o cretin who can barely count to ten living under a dictatorship. you're absolutely right. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:30 PM Flag
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being ridiculous does not change my opinion that you are just atroublemaker who doesn't understand that reasonable allowances serve everyone. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:38 PM Flag
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do you realize how full of yourself you sound? there's really no reason to condescend to me just because i happen to disagree with you. i understand you perfectly. i disagree. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:43 PM Flag
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you are not just disagreeing. You are a PITA vulture, suspicious, paranoid and sure others are getting one over on you. I find people like you are what makes going public unpleasant. I have 2 kids in public school,and I have seen the crazy rabble rousers like you. always screaming foul, and whining for fairness. it is disheartening to have to deal with people like you, much more so than dealing with the doe which seems to be trying to deal with a complicated system. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 06:16 PM Flag
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you have no idea who i am or how i behave. you are making wild assumptions about me. i am simply disagreeing with you on a public bulletin board and you seem not to be able to deal with that. i believe in a system that is fair, transparent and not open to corruption. you don't. this somehow makes me a vulture, a moron, and a communist. you seem to think every public school parent but you is an ass, whining about all the idiots you have to deal with on a daily basis. maybe they aren't the problem. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 06:38 PM Flag
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making sweeping generalizations from what I am saying is a tactic that doesn't work. I believe in fairness too. I think the system is fair, and the no w/l policy was an attempt to simplify the process so that people weren't playing musical chairs all summer, and well into the fall. if a kid who met the 90+ cutoff gets moved to G&T within a school at the last minute, I think that is a reasonable thing to do if the class sizes are lopsided. that does not mean the system is not transparent or that it is corrupt or anything else. i have a broader perspective. you do sound like some of the people I have seen at our pta meetings. always thinking the doe is your enemy, out to screw you. always crying foul. I find it very unpleasant and weird. not every public school parent obviously. but the ones like I describe. you sound like one of those from your posts. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 06:55 PM Flag
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weird. not every public school parent obviously. but the ones like I describe. you sound like one of those from your posts. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 06:57 PM Flag
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lol! you remind me of my albanian dorrman. everyone got a break through corruption, except for him! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:28 PM Flag
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what do you mean by committed to going to the school? obviously if you live in the zone and didn't test into a g&t you're going to the school. you seem to be suggesting that those lucky enough to be in a gen ed at a school with a g&t should get an advantage. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:44 PM Flag
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And it's moves like that that the new admissions process was supposed to eliminate. Once process that applies to everyone, no backdoors, no special favors. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:45 PM Flag
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ita. it just paves the way to bribery and corruption and special favors. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:52 PM Flag
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no, it does not. it allows for a teensy tinsy bit of flexibility. what is your problem? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:58 PM Flag
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the reason the system was changed is because there WAS corruption. what is YOUR problem? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:07 PM Flag
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so let the doe choose the kids from a lottery pool of kids in the gen ed who made the cutoff. seems perfect. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:08 PM Flag
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how can the doe do this when there are plenty of dcs who scored above the cutoff who don't have this opportunity? maybe they would turn a blind eye, but they certainly wouldn't instituionalize it. which means the schools will do what they want, which means lack of consistency and an atmosphere ripe for corruption. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:27 PM Flag
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we are talking a couple of spots here and there for the purpose of balancing the classes within one school. could be done by the doe via a lottery to avoid corruption or the appearance of it. you seem overly dramatic [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:31 PM Flag
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the doe would have to hold a lottery for all dcs who qualified and want a spot at that school. or else they'd have to change the rules. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:40 PM Flag
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they should change the rules to allow for this exception. otherwise there would be a w/l which would be disatrous and destablizing. we are talking a couple of spots. they do not want people moving schools creating more spots and causing a ripple effect. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:43 PM Flag
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either way would be changing the rules since they said no w/ls. I vote for pulling the kid already at the school. less disruptive overall. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 06:58 PM Flag
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How was the process not transparent? Everything you need to know how you got the spot you got was disclosed. There is no need for wait lists as long as the DOE used good numbers to oversubscribe certain programs. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:40 PM Flag
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But now, according to a poster earlier today, it's possible PS 166 may have a waitlist when the DOE expressly said there would not be one and that any remaining empty seats would be filled by students who relocated to NYC after the testing had ended last winter. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:43 PM Flag
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But that is a rumor and the DOE has absolutely nothing to do with that. If in the end this actually happens you have a reason to say that something was amiss. At this point of time there is no reason at all. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:49 PM Flag
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Notice I wrote "possible" and "may". Yes it's a rumor. People who may be affected might want to bring it up to the DOE and see what's up. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:52 PM Flag
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god, what do you do for a living if anything. you seem like someone whose sibs did better, and you just never got over the insult. get a life. this is probably total rumor. doe should not have to answer to the likes of you [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:00 PM Flag
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DID YOU NOT GET A SPOT, OR DO YOU JUST LIKE TROUBLE FOR TROUBLE'S SAKE? SERIOUS QUESTION, BTW. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:16 PM Flag
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Trouble from whom? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:54 PM Flag
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trouble for the doe. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 06:20 PM Flag
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I don't have a dog in this fight - but, am familiar with the process. If the DOE stated NO WAITLIST. And parents made decisions based on that, they cannot suddenly have a waitlist form in July. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:37 PM Flag
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ita. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:39 PM Flag
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no one is suggesting a w/l. only a bit of flexibility when all is said and done to balance the classes. DDO YOU HEAR THAT DOE? ITS OK TO DO THIS. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:15 PM Flag
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no it isn't. If they want balanced g&t classes, then give half the spots to males and half to females. Just because you believe its ok, doesn't mean it is ok [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 06:21 PM Flag
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amen [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 06:42 PM Flag
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by balanced, I am not talking about gender, race, geography, etc. I am talking if you have fewer kids in G&T than gen ed, and some gen ed kids who meet the G&T cutoff. seems very reasonable to move them over to "balance" the numbers. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 07:00 PM Flag
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Except it's usually the opposite. We are at PS9 and the G&T classes are much bigger than gen ed as it. If there was any balancing to do, it would have to be in the other direction. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.20.08, 12:41 PM Flag
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Only the truly naive would believe that the DOE would let popular G&Ts go undersubscribed. My money has always been that these spots will either be filled by unofficial wait lists (be they kids/siblings who didn't test in from gen ed or kids who did not get a spot) or by the "squeaky wheels" who keep calling about openings. If we hadn't decided that Nest was too far to commute, believe me I would be one of those squeaky wheels right now. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:52 PM Flag
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If a DOE employee doesn't want to be bothered by your repeated calls he will let you speak to his voice mail and ignore you. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:57 PM Flag
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Then there are 4 or 5 other people to try. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 03:58 PM Flag
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~~besides you handle it in as nice and as gracious a way as possible "please, we really loved X. We would accept a spot right away if it became available. Please keep us in mind if the enrollment situation changes." "Hi, we were just checking in to see if anything had changed. Thanks so much for keeping us informed..." blah, blah, blah [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:00 PM Flag
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and so what? it will be a couple of people at most. hardly massive corruption. also, I vote for giving it to a kid in the school who made the cutoff. a sort of unofficial catchment policy for balancing the classes. I think doe should make this official. hey, I will call and suggest it! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:03 PM Flag
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You and I are not disagreeing (I am the squeaky wheel poster). I don't see it as mass corruption either way--fill the desirable spots either with kids in the schools or with other kids whose parents care enough to check in on it all summer [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:05 PM Flag
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I don't care personally. But the ability of savvy parents to game the system and find a way to get their kid a spot is what Klein objected to in the first place, supposedly. So it's ironic that savvy parents can still find a spot for their kid. I actually prefer systems with gaps and holes in them, to entirely closed bureaucratic systems, which tend to be too inflexible to work. If a system can't be beat through the extercise of determination and ingenuity, it will fail anyway - see Communism, Soviet Union. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.20.08, 07:22 AM Flag
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see I think that it is not about saavy parents. say your kid gets a 95, but doesn't get G&T at ps166 which is down the street. You put dc there in gen ed. 2 days before school, you get a call saying your kid was chosen (1 of 2) in a lottery from kids in gen ed who made the cutoff. your are happy, not saavy. no one is gaming, just lucky. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.20.08, 07:50 AM Flag
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np: let's all call and suggest it, just to give OR a stroke. yes, let's give the schools the ability to make sure one class doesn't have 30 while another has 20, even though the one with 30 has kids who made the cutoff. I think doe really ought to adopt this policy officially. I will write Joel Klein pronto! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:05 PM Flag
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The advantage of a centralized admission process is that those tactics don't work. Nobody at the DOE cares for any school in specific. They have rules and procedures. Unless you are one of Klein's or some other higher up politician's f*ck buddy you will not stand a chance by just calling up people at the DOE. And if you try that with the principal he will easily rebuff you and tell you to bring this up with the DOE. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:10 PM Flag
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True, but the doe may assign gen ed kids who made the cutoff to open G&T spots, and that would be a good idea. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:19 PM Flag
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OP, btw. I posted this, and hope the DOE reads UB. Maybe they will get some good ideas from reasonable people here. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:27 PM Flag
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again, you are being incredibly naive if you believe that they will leave spots sitting open. They will fill them anyway they see fit. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 04:51 PM Flag
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as well they should!!! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 05:00 PM Flag
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yes. At the discretion of the principal. If he is a push-over you can have a chance with him. If he does his job right he will use the open spots anyway he thinks he needs them (like a really smart kid slipped through the cracks or what not). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 05:34 PM Flag
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bullsh*t they don't work. I am sure they do. And the people they work for will keep their mouths shut if they are smart. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.18.08, 05:11 PM Flag
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