< Return to Talk
07.18.08, 09:48 AM General Topics
88 replies
Amazes me how clueless so many NYC moms are re: private schools. Given the amount of wealth in Manhattan now, many families don't go there because of the social unease they'd feel being merely upper middle class amongst millionaires. If their kids get into Hunter or Anderson it's not like they're sending them to a one-room schoolhouse. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
General Topics 07.18.08, 09:48 AM Flag
 

Dear UrbanBaby community,

Thank you so much for being a valued member of the UrbanBaby community. We wanted to inform you that we are shutting down the site on July 6th. We are grateful for your participation and support that has helped make UrbanBaby such an important resource to parents for many years.

If you have any questions or concerns, you can email us at urbanbaby-support@cbsinteractive.com.

Thanks so much,

UrbanBaby Support

»
Instead, they would be sending them to school with kids from families more like theirs. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 09:50 AM Flag
»
Exactly. It's the same reason many of those families (and "upper middle class" in NYC means "rich" most anywhere else!!) move to places like Scarsdale, Rye, Millburn and Westport and send their kids to public schools - because they are around people who have more similar lifestyles. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 09:51 AM Flag
»
it's the same in NYC public schools that are in good zones, most people there are very similar as far as socioeconomics are concerned [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:04 AM Flag
»
not in my school - we have shelter dc and very wealthy dc [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:15 AM Flag
»
so do we, but 80% of the kids are UMC [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:24 AM Flag
»
I have no idea about our school (or how you define umc and mc) [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:37 AM Flag
»
This was definitely a concern for us (though we are going to private anyway). [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 09:51 AM Flag
»
It's tough if your kid gets into a TT school to turn them down. But ultimately we realized that the unhealthy aspects of being around so many extremely wealthy kids was worse than the slight drop in education level from top suburban public schools surrounded by kids who came from similar economic background. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 09:57 AM Flag
»
Do you think rich people have the plague? [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 09:59 AM Flag
»
np: For me, I worried more DD would feel out of place [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:01 AM Flag
»
There are many reasons that a child can feel out of place. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:10 AM Flag
»
But few as compelling as money. Hard to get past that one, especially when you are in the clear minority if you don't have a house in Hamptons [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:11 AM Flag
»
I agree with this. I grew up in a wealthy neighborhood. All my classmates had more money than we did. I don't think wealthy kids are not adjusted. I was good friends with many of them. I just couldn't do all the things they could do - vacations in Europe, skiing, etc... I couldn't wear the clothes or drive the cars. It was just that I felt left out. I'd like my kid to be somewhere in the middle of the pack. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 02:11 PM Flag
»
OR: Yes, and my DD seems prone to most of them. Didn't think it was fair to add another (big) one. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:15 AM Flag
»
NP: No. But even with a low six-figure income, we realized we were dealing with people from a different world. Did not feel it was worth it for DCs to have to deal with that. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:09 AM Flag
»
Rich and well-adjusted rarely go hand-in-hand. Too many Mr. & Mrs. X (Nanny Diaries) types at most TT schools. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:09 AM Flag
»
Often they do, and who says that poor, or middle class and well-adjusted go hand-in-hand [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:11 AM Flag
»
Convoluted logic. You will get messed up people everywhere. But percentage-wise, you see more of it in the very wealthy and the very poor. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:14 AM Flag
»
Do you know that for a fact? I's like to see some stats. I have read a few studies lately that seem to indicated that wealthy people are actually happier than the average person. It makes sense, if you don't have to struggle you can focus on other things. Sure there are f*cked up rich people, but there are f*cked up people everywhere. I think that is a silly reason to avoid private school. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:18 AM Flag
»
THe people in those studies are what the rest of America calls r [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:33 AM Flag
»
>>The people in those studies are what the rest of America calls "rich" but what barely passes for "upper middle class" in Manhattan. Don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise. We're talking about the difference between the 98th percentile of wealth and the 99.5th percentile. And people who are in that very top percentile do share many traits with the very poor. Many studies have been done on their shared traits. The studies you refer to are looking at families with $300K/year incomes. Not $300M/year. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:35 AM Flag
»
of course, they don't, but you cannot tell me that you don't agree that these are two different worlds that don't really have much in common [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:14 AM Flag
»
I grew up in NYC and went to a TT school. We had much more diversity then in what the parents did- wasn't all just Wall Street. Parents were all professionals or academics- no one was poor or close to it-- but we are looking at private/suburbs because the people in Manhattan private schools now just seem so in-your-face and insecure about their wealth. Downtown schools or Brooklyn also an option. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:20 AM Flag
»
We actually chose a school most UBers would think is 3rd tier over a very high 2nd tier because it seemed to be more "down to earth" from a social perspective...felt like our tDC wouldn't be the poorest kids at the school we chose...starting in the fall...hopefully we won't regret it! [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:00 AM Flag
»
ditto. We are at a downtown progressive and love it. We wanted a good fit for dc but also a community that was a lot like us. We are very happy there [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:02 AM Flag
»
Downtown schools are much saner places. Lots of trust funds, but the parents are less likely to be "socialites" [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:12 AM Flag
»
OR; ITA. Our 3rd tier is downtown, the "very high second tier" was UES. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:16 AM Flag
»
"Lots of trust funds" - Ha! Very true- that's how they pay tuition. But it means mom & dad often have more interesting jobs than "hedge fund manager" [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:21 AM Flag
»
"Slight drop in education level"? Are you kidding? [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:02 AM Flag
»
Honey, kids from a Bronxville or Millburn High do just as well in life as kids from Horace Mann. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:06 AM Flag
»
And they're much more well-adjusted and happier [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:06 AM Flag
»
Kids who live in Bronxville have affluent families, but that does not mean that every child living there is smart. Public schools though will take every single child who lives in that town, so there will necessarily be kids who are not academically inclined - who either don't go to college or go to small local colleges, etc. When I worked in NJ, my assistant had graduated from Millburn HS. She went to Rutgers-Newark for a year and dropped out and became a secretary. That is rarely the case for a grad of a top NYC private. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:48 AM Flag
»
But that's apples and oranges and if you were half as bright as you'd like to think you are, you'd know that. BRIGHT KIDS from Bronxville or Millburn will do just as well in life as kids from Horace Mann. They will get into the same colleges, get the same jobs, and even have the same connections. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:51 AM Flag
»
And I don't necessarily disagree, but having many friends who went to top suburban publics (inc DH) I have heard that the academic environment is not the same, nor are the challenges as great for the brightest kids. Those who are self-motivated will do fine anywhere, but a lot of bright kids can get lazy when the atmosphere is different. I'm not saying that kids there don't get a great education or have opportunities, but it's not "the same thing" and if you think the "connections" are the same, I TOTALLY disagree. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:56 AM Flag
»
So you are basing your opinions of what your DH and friends went through 25 years ago? Things have changed since then. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:58 AM Flag
»
And the only contacts you'll get nowadays at Horace Mann are Goldman Sachs and hedge funds. Top suburban districts more likely to have diversity of top professionals. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:59 AM Flag
»
WAHAHAHAHA, BWHAHAHA lol!!!!! keep telling yourself that sweetheart [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 01:39 PM Flag
»
NO they haven't. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 01:36 PM Flag
»
I posted before about going to TT girls school - and I'm shocked that you are basing your opinions of ANY schools on what people you know experienced in the 1970s or 80s. High School is so much different now. Kids at top public and private schools spend so much more time studying, polishing their resumes than we ever did. It's a brand new world. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:02 AM Flag
»
actually, i have friends that have kids that are either in HS or that graduated in the last 5 years, so my opinion is not based solely on what was going on in the late 80s when I graduated. Times have changed, but the fact is that at any public school, the diveristy of aacademic ability is going to be greater because at that school will be every child from the least to the most smart and schools need to cater to all of them. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:11 AM Flag
»
You've completely discounted the specialized HS's in NYC. They have a range of kids to be sure. But by virtue of the admissions test which is a tough test, the kids range from super-smart down to smart. Certainly some kids won't be the most motivated, but that doesn't mean they're stupid. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:18 AM Flag
»
actually, i thought we were discussing top subrurban publics. i think the selective HS in NYC are in a class by themselves. academically they are probably in many ways superior to TT privates. where they fall short is in the non-academic areas - which for many people are less important. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:33 AM Flag
»
np - What do you mean by non-academic areas? [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:44 AM Flag
»
They don't have two pools the way Stuyvesant does? [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:49 AM Flag
»
Kids in NYC public schools travel by car or public transportation. They rarely get to ride in their friends father's limos or even take a helicopter out to the Hamptons. (I hear many of them go on that Jitney!) [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:50 AM Flag
»
To listen to you, one would think they all sat in the same classrooms. What those districts do is track the top students, who are all in an honors program that's heavy on AP classes. They only take classes with other honors students (except for gym) and they all seem to have little trouble getting in HYP. And they have the social advantage of having grown up in an environment more similar to 99% of their peers vs the adult-centric environment of Manhattan. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:28 AM Flag
»
Peaches- that is rarely the case for a Millburn High School graduate (Millburn HS is Short Hills, for those not familiar). Ditto Bronxville HS, Greeley (Chappaqua), etc. Smart kids who go to top suburban districts are every bit as "advantaged" as kids who go to Manhattan private schools. Likely more so, because they are more well-adapted socially. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:55 AM Flag
»
I'm saying that not all kids who got to HS in these affluent suburbs with good school districts ARE that smart. The schools do not get to pick their students and that means that there will be kids who aren't that smart. That's simply not going to be the case at a private that hand picks its students. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:13 AM Flag
»
Yes, but again, the kids in those schools are tracked from about middle school on. That means the kids in the AP/Honors program at Bronxville HS will only be with other very bright kids. They are not taking math with the C students. So they are getting as good an education for the price of the property tax. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:23 AM Flag
»
The class environment is very different from the overall school environment though and I do think it makes a difference. You obviously feel differently. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:35 AM Flag
»
It's not like the smart kids get picked on in those schools!! And the kids have an out-of-school experience that prepares them for college, where Manhattan kids have a notoriously tough time- they are neither part of the prep school clique and are too sheltered to fit in with suburban kids [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:37 AM Flag
»
np - What are you talking about? Why would Manhattan kids be "too sheltered to fit in with suburban kids"? And what is the "prep school clique"? [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 01:38 PM Flag
»
Manhattan kids grow up in a very different, adult-centric environment. It's often tough for them to fit in at college and why they tend to flock to the same schools. Prep-school clique are kids who went to boarding school [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.19.08, 03:25 PM Flag
»
I agree- by the time kids get to high school, the AP programs at top local private schools are just as challenging as NYC private schools. You're really not giving up anything. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:11 AM Flag
»
You mean top public schools? [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:21 AM Flag
»
OR: Sorry- yes!! I meant top suburban public schools: Scarsdale, Bronxville, Great Neck, Millburn, Princeton, Chappaqua, Jericho, Wesport et al. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:23 AM Flag
»
And at the top NYC publics of course [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 10:57 AM Flag
»
Yes- Stuyvesant grads rarely seem to wind up as street sweepers. Though to listen to these women, you'd think that was the split. If you ever want an argument against the fact that top private schools produce brilliant students, just look at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Bush and his Yale-educated daughters. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:04 AM Flag
»
but top nyc publics are selective in academic admissions and that actually is very different from top subruban publics which take every single student who lives in that town (or school district). Every Stuyvesant student has to qualify - every Princeton HS student does not. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:16 AM Flag
»
No, but their parents have to be able to afford to live in Princeton. That's the filter. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:19 AM Flag
»
And again- you speak as if Princeton HS did not bother to separate its top students into honors classes. Where the intelligence level will be equal to Horace Mann. Higher, in fact, I'd guess, since many of the kids of Princeton High will be offspring of professors. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:29 AM Flag
»
a filter, yes. an academic filter? not so much. affluence plays a big role, but being affluent in and of itself does not make kids bright or academically inclined or even motivated. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:31 AM Flag
»
But it does pay for armies of tutors [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:39 AM Flag
»
The fact that you don't realize how thinly you are splitting hairs with your argument here is baffling. It's the sort of difference that can barely be seen with the naked eye and yet you've turned it into something vast and insurmountable. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:48 AM Flag
»
I hate to throw race into the mix, but here goes -- wehat about a smart AA kid from an upper middle class family? Isn't it better for him to grow up in (diverse) NYC and go to a private school where he's the minority only at school, than to grow up in an all-white suburb where he's the minority at home and at school? [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:35 AM Flag
»
I'm not sure why he wouldn't be the only minority at home in Manhattan, unless you lived in Harlem [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:38 AM Flag
»
walk around the streets in manhattan and then walk around the streets of short hills, new canaan, manhasset, scarsdale - does it REALLY feel the same to you? [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:41 AM Flag
»
Walk around the streets in Montclair, South Orange or New Rochelle. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:43 AM Flag
»
but she said an "all white suburb" which those towns are not. and their school systems are not up there with those that are bing discussed here. my cousins recently graduated from montclair hs and my friend's kids just opted out of school system in new rochelle to go to scarsdale where she teaches so i have half a clue about this. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:49 AM Flag
»
I do. And in the residential areas - downtown and (especially) UES and UWS, I don't see a whole lot of upper middle class blacks. Mostly working class blacks. Brooklyn and NJ towns are very different. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:44 AM Flag
»
absolutely. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:39 AM Flag
»
By "at home" I mean that, socially, NYC even outside Harlem, has a lot more opportunities for a diverse mix of people to interact. Even without leaving the city. the same can't be said for a lot of the suburbs. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:41 AM Flag
»
Montclair. South Orange. New Rochelle. You didn't invent the black upper middle class, you know. We've been around a while. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:42 AM Flag
»
^^Lots of parts of Brooklyn too-- which is a much more comfortable place for affluent AA families to live. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:45 AM Flag
»
Yes don't sleep on Ft Greene, Clinton Hill and Stuy Hts Bed Stuy... [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 10.23.08, 09:09 AM Flag
»
Funny, most affluent AA families I know who live in "diverse" burbs like Montclair, South Orange and Maplewood send their kids to private schools because they don't want them "going ghetto" when they are in schools with working class AA kids and feeling pressure to be more "black" [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:41 AM Flag
»
Your argument makes sense if you are talking about a brownstone in Fort Greene and St. Ann's. Not if you're talking a high-rise on the UES and Horace Mann [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 11:46 AM Flag
»
Actually, what is so clueless is people in this city thinking that money in your dcs class is going to cause a problem. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 01:34 PM Flag
»
HAVE ANY OF YOU BEEN TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL AS DCS IN NYC? I DOUBT IT. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IT. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 01:35 PM Flag
»
Why do you think that having been a student 10, 20, 30 years ago is more valid than being a current parent? [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 01:39 PM Flag
»
Because the schools haven't changed so much as to warrant your non experience more valid than our first hand experience. Manhattan has always been filled with the wealthy, and these schools have always attracted them. Old money, celebrities names, political powerhouses and none of it made us uncomfortable. This is the most foolish concern I have ever heard. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 01:42 PM Flag
»
Love how mommies who are new here think they know that schools have changed Based on what exactly? Their vast knowledge of what it was like before? [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 01:44 PM Flag
»
Do you really believe Manhattan hasn't changed in the past 25 years? I went to Chapin and the mix of families at the school is very different than when I was there. That reflects the make-up of Manhattan as much as anything else. But it's very different nowadays with a much greater emphasis on money and less appreciation for NYC as a diverse place (as opposed to a convenient one.) [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.19.08, 03:28 PM Flag
»
because it is. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 01:46 PM Flag
»
Has your college changed so much? Your private college which strives to maintain the philosophy and academic level on which was built? No. They don't. And neither do these. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.18.08, 01:55 PM Flag
»
I am amazed at how thick you are. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.19.08, 03:12 PM Flag
»
I think it's weird for you to feel social unease around rich people. I'm not rich by any means, but I wouldn't feel uneasy - why should I? BTW, I want my dc to be exposed to people w/o and w/ money. Not just to the people in our situation. That is not why we live in the city. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.19.08, 03:22 PM Flag
»
I don't think anyone was feeling "unease" as much as not wanting their child to feel very different. If there is a range of income levels, that's very different than 75% of the class owning a house in the Hamptons. [ Reply | More
]
General Topics 07.19.08, 03:23 PM Flag
Refresh » New Post »
Select Category
close [X]

close [X]

Select a Category (only 1)

category
Stages
Regions