UrbanBaby

07.14.08, 09:15 AM NY Schools
12 replies

I never thought I'd be for less power for the teachers' union but I do now think their power is too big and needs to be scaled back some. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
NY Schools 07.14.08, 09:15 AM Flag

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what changed your mind? [ Reply | More

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General Topics 07.14.08, 09:18 AM Flag

My zoned school has a lot of good teachers but several really, really, really bad ones who should have nothing to do with children (borderline abusive). We can't fire them. We get the greenest teachers who burn out so quickly and leave the profession. It's bec of the seniority system we have going. [ Reply | More

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General Topics 07.14.08, 09:25 AM Flag

interesting. Maybe I could help? I'm a reporter - I cover education, and I could write a story about the difficulty. egreen@nysun.com. [ Reply | More

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General Topics 07.14.08, 11:12 AM Flag

how do you define borderline abusive? [ Reply | More

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General Topics 07.14.08, 11:19 AM Flag

NP: the principals now have virtual total control over whom they hire. They no longer have to make hires based on seniority. That was one of the changes wrought under Bloomberg/Klein. A union's job is to protect those who have been hired. It is not impossible to get rid of bad teachers, but principals must be willing to follow the procedures. Many don't want to go through the paperwork, or don't want to put a "U" in a teacher's file. Really, the principals have much more power now and as Stan Lee wrote, "with great power comes great responsibility." Also keep in mind that the teachers' union contract is the only thing that keeps any kind of cap on class size (though the contract is routinely ignored anyway, it would be much worse without it). As for green teachers burning out quickly, that has long been the case... and without union protections and benefits, even more teachers would leave the system (or never enter it in the first place). Most teachers I know have very mixed feelings about their union and wish their principals would have the balls to move improve or remove their fellow teachers who are incompetent. [ Reply | More

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General Topics 07.14.08, 01:31 PM Flag

Well, the principal doesn't want to fire the bad teachers bec she knows they will be replaced by other bad teachers who nobody wants - it's not a desirable school. It takes up a huge amount of time to go through the motion to fire teachers. If we did fire, we'll end up getting the greenest teachers or old and bad teachers. [ Reply | More

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General Topics 07.14.08, 01:35 PM Flag

That's a catch-22. So the principal has to make it a more desirable place to work. Does the school work with Teach for America? You get green teachers but typically well-educated and enthusiastic. Also there are these new bonuses for teachers willing to work in less desirable schools. The DOE is treating principals like CEOs, and all CEOs grapple with recruitment. Does she have a reputation for treating teachers with respect? Is she an efficient leader? Good, experienced teachers often come to a different school because they have heard good things about the school from its current teachers. Anyway hiring is no longer based on seniority; the union really has nothing to do with the problem your school is having. Perhaps the principal should be mentoring those problem teachers more closely, observing them in class, providing guidance. [ Reply | More

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General Topics 07.14.08, 01:45 PM Flag

I know the principal tries hard, but she can't make it a desirable place to work all by herself. She did all she can. Green teachers will last one or two years at most and they leave. Well educated but they don't know how ot manage a class and not good teachers yet. Of course, if she does fire bad teachers, teachers to replace them will think principal is out of line (job security). The school's budget to hire experienced teachers is not there. They cost more. [ Reply | More

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General Topics 07.14.08, 01:50 PM Flag

What's bad about new teachers. Our school is very good and all the teachers hired are new. Most of them very good, still have the energy and also top credentials. And they cost a lot less than seasoned teachers. [ Reply | More

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General Topics 07.14.08, 02:12 PM Flag

Well, I like them, but it's hard for them to manage the class (inner city here) and they burn out and never stay. At least in my school, they teach for a year or two and they leave the profession (marry) or move to $$$$ zoned schools. [ Reply | More

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General Topics 07.14.08, 02:15 PM Flag

They leave when they have kids at our school but usually stay for 5 years or so which is not bad. [ Reply | More

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General Topics 07.14.08, 02:20 PM Flag

which school? [ Reply | More

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General Topics 07.21.08, 11:53 AM Flag