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07.11.08, 17:27 PM General Topics
80 replies
Why is is that people say a school lacks diversity when a school is predominantly non white... e.g., in a post earlier today someone lamented a school was not diverse because its 5 W 64 B 30 H 2 A. Another school about 10 blocks away in the same neighborhood is 62 W 18 B 16 H 5 A. The biggest difference between the two is that one is 62% white and the other is 64% black. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
General Topics 07.11.08, 05:27 PM Flag
 

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Are whites considered a minority though? come on. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:31 PM Flag
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Whites are not considered a minority. The point is that the school that is predominantly black is the one that neighborhood parents complain lacks diversity. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:33 PM Flag
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np; diversity by definition means a mix. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:39 PM Flag
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And both schools have a mix. Its just that there is one dominant race in each school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:47 PM Flag
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NP: Whites are not considered "minority" in the vernacular, however, they are the minority in the public school system. all of the G&T magnet programs that were created in the 1980s and 1990s were created to integrate the schools, meaning they were funded to stop the white flight from the public school system. Even now, while students make up only about 20% of the NYC public school system. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.12.08, 12:54 PM Flag
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I think most people want diverse student body. 1/3 white, 1/3 AA, 1/3 Asian and Latino or something like that. Many parents in Harlem don't want to send their kids to 99% AA schools, either. They want diversity, too. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:31 PM Flag
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Yes, and the diverse schools will become fewer because of the new no changing district rules. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:52 PM Flag
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^^^ and I never hear anyone ever complain about the other school's lack of diversity. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:31 PM Flag
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I assume we are talking about PS 198 here and possilby PS 6? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:32 PM Flag
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OP - no PS 321 and PS 282 in Bklyn. But somehow I don't think what I've observed is unique. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:33 PM Flag
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this is exactly the case with PS 198 and PS 6 with almost the exact percentages you used, but I have to admit that it makes me a bit hesitate to send my very fair white child into a school where she would be the minority [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:36 PM Flag
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np: ooga booga booga! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:48 PM Flag
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lol [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:19 PM Flag
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PS 39 is actually diverse, btw -- about a third each black, white and Hispanic (few Asian, though) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:47 PM Flag
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I owuld want my DC to be the only one white kids in the class which so it isn't very diverse if that was the case [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:34 PM Flag
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would not ^ [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:34 PM Flag
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I don't think OR is very bright. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:39 PM Flag
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what is OR [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:40 PM Flag
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Did all the above posters present themselves this way in parent interviews, tours, orientations or other Q&A opportunities at schools. The view of diversity as a purely racial aspect is SO ignorant and perpetuates and intensifies the divisions our children will get sucked into, or spend a further generation struggling to bridge. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:39 PM Flag
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this is true but it is also very real and therefore cannot be overlooked [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:41 PM Flag
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I don't overlook it; believe me, yet it's really damaging to ignore the exclusion of geographical, cultural, spiritual, economic and educational diversity. There's such a flamboyant comfort on this url with using terms like ghetto, project kids and is openly, often "us and them". I am the neighbor you'd "pass for white" (and have to my face)and make me feel ill. Dear "Let US have our code words and leave US alone.", No one would have your back if you were in any non-virtual room. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:10 PM Flag
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But it's equally ignorant to assume a school is diverse just bec they have a mix of all white families (diff occupation, international, gay vs straight, etc). Look at out city. The city is not 99% white. There are black gay families and black artists and black internationals, too. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:42 PM Flag
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I don't think a school is diverse just because of a mix of white families that is not diversity at all [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:45 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:46 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:48 PM Flag
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There are few, but private schools that actually match their published numbers in terms of racial diversity (imo is important). SHSH, MCS, Dalton, CGPS and UNIS come to mind but there are probably others as well. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:55 PM Flag
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Well this website IS 99% white... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:37 PM Flag
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How would you know that? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:57 PM Flag
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Because I can read with decent comprehension and am not white. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 07:15 PM Flag
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Huh? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 07:18 PM Flag
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ah. it's called prejudice what you are applying here [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 07:19 PM Flag
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Hey, I know...Let's initiate one of the UB faves-A POLL! A race poll! List the following: Age, Race, HHI, Level of formal education, Sexual Orientation, Property Holdings(Incl Rent/Own,Annual Taxes, Monthly Mortgage/Maint/Rent, # of kids and whether attending Private or Public,Occupation and Net Worth. Oooh...Friday Night! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 07:21 PM Flag
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You're drunker than I am. :) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 07:24 PM Flag
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I don't drink but I did get myself worked up to a real stink here; I'm sorry. I've got to quit this site because I get so pissed off here... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 07:27 PM Flag
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Why are you getting pissed off? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 07:33 PM Flag
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On the broad spectrum, it's disheartening enough to experience how little progress has been made. Locally, on UB, there are so many posts, particularly on 'schools', [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 08:05 PM Flag
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it's really obnoxious to read so many barely tolerant posters, posturing as supporters and cravers of diversity- to a point. I get pissed at the crappy format, which disables me from addressing whom I intend to address and I get pissed at me, for getting sucked in. Surely, some actually conscious, responsible, hopeful folks check in here- but they seem to be the first to check out. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 08:11 PM Flag
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I agree. But for some crazy reason I feel like I can change people by arguing in favor of minorities and against stereotyping. Totally ridiculous I know. Ultimately, I am saddened by people's sentiment on this board and am really glad we're out of the City and that my kid won't be subjected to kids whose parents feel this way about people of other races, economic status, etc. The "honest" opinions expressed on UB are genuinely sad. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 08:18 PM Flag
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Yes, it's too easy to be 'mean right back' and makes me feel really stupid. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 08:23 PM Flag
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OP here: While in I'm saddened by the "honest" opinions expressed on UB - at least there is a place where people can express themselves honestly. It reminds me at time that there are many people who can't get past the color of my skin and that of my dcs. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 08:56 PM Flag
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I hear what you're saying, but honestly, I don't want to be reminded. I actually enjoying living in my world out in the burbs where my friends are my friends and I genuinely believe they don't care about superficial things like the color of my skin and my child's skin. I believe that many people have progressed beyond that, but NYC has not. It mistakes itself for being a liberal place when in reality it has the most stark stratification especially by race compared to other places. If you look around Manhattan so many of the service people are minorities whereas in suburbs outside of the City, you find a lot more minorities who are middle and UMC. Maybe I'm living in a dream world, but that is my perception, and I am much more comfortable in that world than the NYC/UB world. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 09:01 PM Flag
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I live in NYC and sometimes I like to pretend that the world is color blind - the reality is that it isn't - and I don't think that these opinions are limited to those in NYC. Don't get me wrong - I think there are many people who try to look past color - but are stuck [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 09:05 PM Flag
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I agree that they are not limited to NYC, but NYC people love to talk about how liberal and open-minded they are when its not any more open-minded than some other places (i.e. the burbs which are often trashed). But you are totally right. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 09:09 PM Flag
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Do what you can to raise your dcs to see past color and to look at character and try to do it yourself. Sometimes the comments from the UB posts are annoying but don't let it get to you too much. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 09:17 PM Flag
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You're right, and I do. It's been relatively easy to do this because of the people I've surrounded our family with all our life. You're right I shouldn't get sucked into the UB pit of hatred which is thick with ill will on many levels, certainly not just race. It's not an accurate representation of how most of the world feels at all, but when I come here it does make me focus more on the negative than on the positive. And honestly, I do believe that most people are more progressive than on this board. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.12.08, 10:54 AM Flag
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you sound like a sanctimonious a$$hole [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.13.08, 07:46 PM Flag
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You're right there are many different facets of diversity - but that the stat provided are those provided by insideschools.org and posted earlier today when someone was lamenting about the lack of diversity. They weren't talking about socio-economic diversity, diversity of family composition or anything else. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:45 PM Flag
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Just let us have our code words and leave us alone [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:46 PM Flag
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White Much??? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:50 PM Flag
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Why not be open about what you're really taking about rather than use thinly veiled code? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:53 PM Flag
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Look, hardworking regular people just want good schools [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:56 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:59 PM Flag
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Bingo - and just because a school is predominantly black doesn't mean it isn't good [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:59 PM Flag
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I live in a 50% working section 8 blding (and probably higher than that on my block/neighborhood), and one thing I've learned is that every single one of my neighbors is hardworking too--what I worry about are the educational differences between us that have allowed me to teach my child more prior to the age of four. I don't want her sitting in a classroom waiting for other kids to catch up. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.13.08, 08:35 PM Flag
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Ok I don't my child to be the only white kid in the class...period and I don't think that makes me racist it is probably the same feeling an AA get when they are the only AA in a class too [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 05:57 PM Flag
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But to get back to OP's point that's not the same as "diversity"... if the school is, say 40% black 30% Hispanic 25% Asian that's much more diverse than most schools. ("Diverse" means having a variety, not an even balance between white and "other") [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:01 PM Flag
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Don't be defensive -- no one said you were a racist - why not just say I don't want my dc to be the only kid of his race in the class. It bugs me that lack of diversity is code word for too many black people [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:06 PM Flag
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I was being honest by not tip toeing w/ my race [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:11 PM Flag
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Yes on UB - but would you be so honest in public? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:15 PM Flag
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hmmm...to certain people yes but not to the obvious people it might bother [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:16 PM Flag
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yet, many AA kids do end up being the only black kid. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:20 PM Flag
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I think AAs are more willing to get past race if they think it is the best they can do for their dc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:22 PM Flag
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Exactly, because we don't have the LUXURY of worrying about being minorities. It's true my parents did whatever it took, and I will do whatever it takes to have my child get the best education. But I have seen people on this board hem and haw about good G&T's because their child would be the white minority. It cuts both ways, and honestly there is a strength and confidence that comes from being a minority (be it the only woman, gay, black or white) in a situation. Your white child can benefit from the experience, just as I have benefited from being the token black child. (BTW, I'm not saying you should put your kid in an underperforming school, but I see no harm in putting your child in a school that's recognized as academically strong even if the only non-black child.) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 07:24 PM Flag
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ITA - I had to catch myself from being sucked into not liking the neighborhood school because other parents were lamenting about the lack of diversity - it occurred to me that they were talking about me and my dc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 08:59 PM Flag
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No, we just accept it and move on, if it means we'll get a good education. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 07:55 PM Flag
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how many times are you going to post this? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:16 PM Flag
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As many times as I want to have the discussion. Don't like it - move on to the next post.... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:20 PM Flag
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you're boring. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:27 PM Flag
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You're ent-white-led [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:30 PM Flag
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I think it's kind of funny that for private schools, diversity means fewer white kids, while for public schools, it tends to mean more black kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:21 PM Flag
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this is very true and very funny [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:24 PM Flag
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5 W, 64 B, 30 H, and 2 A sounds pretty good. I don't get why Latino kids are counted as H anyway unless they're indigenous. Why do we even have race anymore? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:23 PM Flag
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Indigenous would be Native American. Hispanic means of SPANISH origin. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:53 PM Flag
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I was thinking of South American Indians. Why wouldn't "spanish" kids be classified as W? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 07:00 PM Flag
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Typically they are classifed by race as well as Hispanic. There are Hispanic whites and hispanic blacks.. Not sure what DOE does on their school applications though [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 07:04 PM Flag
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They ask parents to check off a box. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.12.08, 12:57 PM Flag
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i think people want diverse schools, but ideally they also want schools that reflect the racial makeup of the city. in manhattan, that's roughly 54% white, 27% hispanic, 15% aa and 9% asian. (the reason it adds up to more than 100% is because some census takers identified themselves as more than one race.) so to me it makes sense that the second school you mention is preferred by more people. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.11.08, 06:27 PM Flag
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while there is a lot of huffing and puffing about racists on this thread, this is actually the correct answer. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.13.08, 03:18 PM Flag
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np - I disagree. White people want their kids' schools to be majority white. They do not want to send their kids to a school with fewer than 55% white kids and preferably more like 70% white. Absolutely nothing to do with "the racial makeup of Manhattan". [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.13.08, 03:27 PM Flag
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nnp. don't speak for all white people, because this isn't me. do i want dc to be the only white dc in the class? no. would being in the minority be a problem? no. but i agree with poster above. in a perfect world, i'd want dc's class to reflect the world around him. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.13.08, 05:04 PM Flag
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