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07.10.08, 03:49 AM Toddler
25 replies
"Brit" poster who says universal healthcare is a good thing: I have many relatives in England and Northern Ireland who have had to wait, sometimes months, to see a doctor, even if it was an urgent matter. One cousin has cancer and was on a 6 month wait list to see a doctor. He and all his family chipped in to have him be seen and treated privately because he couldn't afford to pay the whole tab himself -- very expensive. His cancer turned out to be aggressive and waiting the 6 months could have been deadly for him. How is this a better system?General Topics[ Reply | Stop Watching | Options ] 07.10.08, 06:45 AM [ Flag ] [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
Toddler 07.10.08, 03:49 AM Flag
 

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Its a better system because there was a safety net waiting for him...he still had (and took) the option of seeing a private Dr. Anecdotes make for poor arguments but you actually succeeded in proving the benefits of a Universal System as he ended up being treated. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:25 AM Flag
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he was treated because he paid out of pocket. he could have been dead if he waited 6 months for treatment. in this country he would have been seen even if he had no coverage. medicaid would have picked up the tab. universal healthcare is worse, imho. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:30 AM Flag
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Medcaid are you serious? Why do you think the majority of people in the US declare bankruptcy - a miniscule percentage of Americans are covered by Medicaid. But again you prove the point as you agree that the only national system of healthcare availalke in the U.S. would have been a better system for him. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:37 AM Flag
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he didn't end up being treated because of universal healthcare, he was treated in spite of universal healthcare. this example illustrates how it doesn't work. you need to work on your reasoning skills, dearie [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:38 AM Flag
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Medicaid is the ONLY system for of universal health care available in this country - and it is the one you advocate for situations such as your cousins. I am not interested in arguing your specific situation but you neglect to say that he was diagnosed with this cancer by seeing a Dr. - free of charge. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:44 AM Flag
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what you neglected to point out, however, is that he could have died knowing he had cancer that was not treated in a timely manner if he and his family didn't get the money necessary to see a doctor right away. if he wasn't able to get this money together he would not have survived. how is this better? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:48 AM Flag
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Again - I won't argue your story, who knows what the facts are. He was able to get help and he had a safety net. Something millions of Americans are amazingly deprived of. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:51 AM Flag
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it doesn't work, lady. there has to be a better plan than this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:54 AM Flag
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so when the facts are against you you avoid the issue? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:57 AM Flag
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np: No. What the poster is saying is, "I am not going to argue the best system for two populations according to the third hand report of the situation of one person in one of those populations." That is a pretty sound reply if you ask me. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 09:40 AM Flag
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diagnosis without treatment is useless. additionally, this "safety net" would have left him dead. safety nets with big holes, like diagnosis without treatment, are also useless. as an aside, did you graduate high school? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 05:10 AM Flag
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np- you're losing this argument, and OR is making some great points. It's unsurprising that you're resorting to ad hominem attacks, but it doesn't make you seem very smart and it certainly doesn't help you prove your pt. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 05:46 AM Flag
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you are the or. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 10:42 AM Flag
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i'm not saying our system is perfect, but i'd rather have the option of choosing my own doctors and not waiting 6 months or more for treatment. universal healthcare is not some panacea. please lady. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:40 AM Flag
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Fortunately we will have a universal system in place in this country. It is not a cure-all but it will be far better than the uneven and shockingly poor medical treatment available in this country. Moreover, the bulk of Americans are covered by HMOs in the U.S. which do not allow for doctor-selection. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:46 AM Flag
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do you have a crystal ball? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:53 AM Flag
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HMOs allow for doctor selection. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:57 AM Flag
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what a foolish thing to say. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:31 AM Flag
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and mean [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:53 AM Flag
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he didn't end up being treated because of universal healthcare, he was treated in spite of universal healthcare. this example illustrates how it doesn't work. you need to work on your reasoning skills, dearie. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 04:38 AM Flag
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I'm a Brit too and what you need to remember is that the NHS is not free. Everyone who pays National Insurance is paying towards it. The majority of times it works well and people do have the option for going private too. I have worked in NHS and done insurance work and those on the NHS get better care as they automatically get all the support services included in their care. I often read on here of parents worried that their kids aren't getting enough therapy or it's too expensive so the system here doesn't work perfectly either. There is far more medical intervention carried out over here because the insurance will pay and often it seems unecessary. Both systems have good and bad points but I love the feeling in the UK that if I get sick I don't have to worry about huge medical bills. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 05:55 AM Flag
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I think until you've experienced being without health insurance and yet no being poor enough for Medicaid (and I do mean POOR enough because if you work and make more than like $10K you are not eligible for Medicaid as an adult) you have no idea how badly off a percentage of the population here is. It is NOT true that here a patient without insurance coverage would have gotten diagnosed and had treatment. In fact, here, such a patient would not have seen a doctor for his symptoms at all because the vast majority of the poor and uninsured don't go to the doctor at all and even if fortuitously he was seen and diagnosed, cancer specialists do not exist in every small community, nor do they take on patients without health insurance. Cancer treatment is not "emergency medical care" for which no one can be denied (and for which you will be later billed). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 06:17 AM Flag
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^^^ Cancer treatment is not "emergency medical care" for which no one can be denied (and everyone will be later billed). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 06:19 AM Flag
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MD here: I have seen uninsured pts who were diagnosed with lung cancer on routine CXR in the ER. The hospital is only required to treat for emergency care, so the pt would be referred to a public clinic, where they may not be seen for weeks or months, and may not undergo care since they will have to pay out-of-pocket for the chemotherapy and other treatment. If they are lucky, they might qualify for emergency Medicaid, but they have become extremely stringent aboutthe requirements. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 09:05 AM Flag
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What happened to your cousin could have sucked. And I'm happy it turned out well but you realize that for this one horror story (with a happy ending) there are hundreds who can offer stories of Americans who had worse care, right? The newish Medicare Prescription plan not withstanding, many older people of modest means still have to chose between drugs and dinner. Tying medical access to ones job is a fluke left over from World War II. We need to evolve and separate the two. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.10.08, 09:37 AM Flag
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