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07.07.08, 08:54 AM General Topics
84 replies
Do you think a kid who has a 4.0 gpa from a great public school, has good extracurricular activites (although nothing he'e especially excellent in), AP classes and great SAT scores, but not well spoken, travelled, cultured etc. has a chance at Yale, Harvard or Princeton? [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
General Topics 07.07.08, 08:54 AM Flag
 

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not much, sorry. Maybe is 5-10 years when this demographic bulge is over. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 08:56 AM Flag
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but then what school would work for him? He clearly is smart and has great grades, just not one of those weird geniuses. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 08:58 AM Flag
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smaller private liberal arts like Kenyon, Macallister? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 08:59 AM Flag
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Please, he can totally do better than that. How about some less competitive ivies? Does he want big or small school? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:10 AM Flag
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no thats about right [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:13 AM Flag
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op - he also doesnt have ideas of what he wants to do in the future nor has a particularly passionate desire for getting into these school - but is applying and thinks he will get in. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 08:57 AM Flag
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YHP admission is a crapshoot for all but about the top 100 members of each of their classes. Admissions director for Yale told me that after that first few blatantly exceptional candidates, that they have no idea how to distinguish one straight-A kid with great scores from another. He may get in, but he'd be a fool to count on it, or to let a disappointment throw him for a loop. There are brilliant kids at every state U in the country. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:01 AM Flag
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Maybe he will especially if a boy if he is at the top of his class. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:09 AM Flag
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well, since he doesn't have the passion or the desire to actually get into HYP let it be then. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 10:37 AM Flag
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I think it's going to be really tough. Kids like that are a dime a dozen. I don't think it particularly matters that he's not well traveled or cultured, but not being well spoken will be a liability. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 08:57 AM Flag
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Is he a leader? Has he headed up groups of others or created new things? Has he made a mark on his community (i.e. school or church or town?) Has he done any interesting volunteer work? Is he an artist or great athlete? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:01 AM Flag
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No, No , No. He's a good person, but hasn't done anything extraordinary. He's an athlete - plays two sports and is good - but not amazing, or the best. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:05 AM Flag
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I'm Macalester-bound! There'll be no heebie-jeebies hangin' round! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:07 AM Flag
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Is he good enough to play sports in college? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:12 AM Flag
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not at a division one, or ivy [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 03:33 PM Flag
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no at division one or ivy [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 03:33 PM Flag
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but no interviews, so how will they know? He got great recommendations. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:02 AM Flag
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they all do [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:03 AM Flag
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do what? How can they tell who is well spoken? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:11 AM Flag
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they all have great recommendations [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 10:09 AM Flag
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from a public school? a 4.0 from any public school in comparison to NYC private tt is a breeze, sorry. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:10 AM Flag
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So what? he can still get in, maybe not Harvard but how about trying Penn or Darthmouth? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:12 AM Flag
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no way [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:14 AM Flag
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My friend's dc is going to Darthmouth in the fall from public HS and did not even get 4.0 (though close). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:15 AM Flag
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ITD! I went to a large public high school in a small, faraway state, and fully 35 of my classmates met this description. They went on to Harvard, Brown, and other terrific schools. I had a 3.85 and got into every college I applied to (7 sisters, Oberlin, U Michigan honors program). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:36 AM Flag
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YEAH, but everything is different now. Unless you were applying in the last couple years, your experience is irrelevant. I was a 4.0 public school kid who got into Harvard, Yale, Brown, etc, but I doubt I would have gotten into them today. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:50 AM Flag
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It is generally more competetive. But not to the favor of private school students and at the expense of public school students. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 05:22 PM Flag
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ITD. I went to a TT private until 9th grade, then went to public school when my family relocated to (drumroll....) Milwaukee. My Wisconsin public school was just as demanding. The only difference is that my classmates were conditioned to apply to UW, UMich, and a few other Midwestern schools. When I applied to HPY, etc. they thought I was crazy. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 05:21 PM Flag
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My niece who had similar credentials didn't get into Yale or Columbia or Georgetown. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:11 AM Flag
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Where did she go? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:12 AM Flag
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Johns Hopkins [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:18 AM Flag
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np: she didn't get into Columbia or Georgetown, but got into JohnHopkins, good for her [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 11:38 AM Flag
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NOT if the public school is in new york(maybe if it's in 'the hood' and the kid is visibly 'poor'. From an under-represented state (North Dakota, Wyoming, Indiana, Iowa...maybe. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:14 AM Flag
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Are you kidding me? If the kid was at Stuy or Bronx Sci he would totally get in. A good shot from Scarsdale or Chappaqua HS too. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:17 AM Flag
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there are probably dozens of kids like that in scarsdale and chappaqua. Same kid would be a much more desirable candidate if applying from a less common place with a better, more interesting backstory (remember that true tv movie about the homeless girl who got into harvard?) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:20 AM Flag
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YOu newbies really overestimate the significance and quality of academics at these two schools. They are great for publics here but they are NOT B, S, chapin or collegiate or Dalton. Look at the stats hundreds of dcs from a graduating and MAYBE they send as many to HYP as a TT with 50 dcs in the graduating class. Numbers don't lie [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:23 AM Flag
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Yep, but the top kids do get in. My BFF's DD graduated from Chappaqua HS this spring and the top kids went to all kinds of great schools including all the Ivies. There are not that many kids there that have 4.0 GPA. She got into an Ivy (not HYP) with credentials stightly worse than OP posted. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:25 AM Flag
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Of course, I am not saying no dcs from public schools - good ones, selective ones, gen ed ones, bad ones - won't go to ivy league schools I am just saying its not anything in comparison to the numbers and assurances parents of dcs in TT private are given. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:32 AM Flag
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I don't think parents in private schools get any assurances either, these days anyway. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:38 AM Flag
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I agree. But the kids at the tt privates often already have connections at those schools hence the high percentage going to tt ivies. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 11:47 AM Flag
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Numbers don't lie but the way you interpret those numbers (and yes, numbers do need to be interpreted) is debatable. Clear and simple. If you don't understand that you should go back to school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 10:59 AM Flag
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The way they are interpreted? If you think your little legacy at an ivy, or anyone's legacy at ivy, will get your dc into school than YOU should go back to school [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 12:42 PM Flag
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My dd is at Chapin, and ITD with you. Stuy and Bronx have a lower % to the Ivies, but more in raw numbers, because they are larger schools. The point is your dc has a better chance getting in from a tt school. However, your statement is false. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 06:08 PM Flag
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hm. tough call. i came from a great public school, but had only avg. (for stanford) SAT, avg academics, but excelled in sports, teachers wrote great recs for me, and was 'traveled and cultured' by default (immigrant family, but asian, so didn't get in on an advantage.) elite uni's these days are all about the diversity in student body, so if the child you are writing about has something unique to offer to the student body, capitalize on it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:18 AM Flag
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btw, i worked in the admissions office when i was a student...i agree w replier above who says after the obviously exceptional, it's a total crapshoot. it's all about who the deans think will round out their class, in terms of diverse offerings they will bring. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:20 AM Flag
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big difference betw applying today and applying 10 or 20 years ago. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:20 AM Flag
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OR: ita on that, too. but actually, for me, it was kind of like applying like it is today, since it really was much tougher for asian kids than it was for other kids. back then, 'we' (asian applicants) knew we had to capitalize on something special in order to distinguish ourselves from all the other asian kids who are all straight A and academically perfect. if you're a dime a dozen, you have to make yourself stand out in some other way--or look for another university or college that will complement your assets. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:23 AM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:30 AM Flag
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the year i was applying was the year Berkeley and other west coast schools were nailed for having asian quotas. look it up. it was tough. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:31 AM Flag
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i forgot to add that i was waitlisted at berkeley... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:32 AM Flag
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if you were waitlisted at Berkeley, you must have been from out of state. Berkeley is notoriously difficult to get into for out-of-staters. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:34 AM Flag
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I know about the quotas and agree it was harder for Asian kids to get in, but I disagree that it was as hard as the current admissions climate for kids today. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:33 AM Flag
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...overall, it's harder. for all applicants. i'm saying that asian students faced this years earlier than everyone else. now, schools have supposedly dropped asian quotas, but it's still hard bc the bar is just higher for all students. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:36 AM Flag
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http://www.heritage.org/Research/Education/EM240.cfm?renderforprint=1 [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:34 AM Flag
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yes, yes, there were quotas. I still think it's harder for kids today. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:36 AM Flag
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I agree. I attended an Ivy (HYP, not saying which) and had decent scores, good grades, but went to a top high school where I was a leader and also had other interesting "life experience". The scores and grades are taken for granted by admissions - it doesn't really matter if you had 1400 or 1600 or 4.0 or 3.5 - the other parts of your character were what got you admitted. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:35 AM Flag
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but wasn't that true for all students, not including disadvantaged groups? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:38 AM Flag
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ita. when it comes down to looking at kids under a microscope, the ones who are really going to stand out are the ones who 1.) had some sort of major adversity in their lives 2.) really put themselves out there and did something that all the other kids are not doing 3.) have something that stands out as a true passion and talent, and not just a resume builder. 4.) have real-life experience. I remember reading applications where the question asked students to write about how they dealt with adversity--one student wrote about how hard it was to have been rejected from the cheerleading squad (she didn't get in); one wrote about spending a summer living with a maori tribe, first time abroad, alone (got in.) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:40 AM Flag
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lol. I think colleges nowadays would not buy the second one, as it is a manufactured experience paid for by the parents too. Unless the child is Maori of course. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:44 AM Flag
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part of the essay was about how the kid fought w her parents about wanting to take a walkabout, after reading about the australian walkabout. (her parents wanted her to go straight to college.) i thought it was damn impressive. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:47 AM Flag
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Chances are slim. Look, colleges take chances on dcs from bad schools who offer diversity or a talent or show promise, they take a decent amount of white dcs from middle of the road or good publics but in large numbers they pick from the great schools - and yes that means private - across the country. A large % of those are in NYC. Look at the numbers, it is not a coincidence that several dcs out of a class of 50 students are accepted to Harvard, several to Yale, several to Princeton and even several more to the other ivies. The colleges know what they are getting in these students, they are a sure thing. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:36 AM Flag
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The key to success is buried somewhere in the middle of the post - "very good athlete." What you need to do is concentrate on excellent Division 3 schools and contact the coaches to express dc's interest in playing for their teams. If he's an spring/fall athlete, even better. Each coach is given a certain number of admits. He won't get a scholarship, but he will get a 50% leg up on the non-athlete. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:37 AM Flag
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Oh come on. This kid has excellent academic credentials, I would play up sports but would not just go to division 3 schools. Depends on what the sport is too, though. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:43 AM Flag
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Well, I'm talking about getting into the top liberal arts colleges in the country, academically on par with HPY. Athletics is the ticket in to these schools, esp. now that acceptance rates range between 10-15% for Am, Wi, Sw. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:46 AM Flag
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Does the child want liberal arts college? Not all kids do especially athletic boys that may well have more fun at bigger school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:50 AM Flag
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Maybe not, but I think kids whose lists either include only HPY or big state schools often have no idea what a college education is really about. JMO. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:52 AM Flag
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Funny, in my family the people that loved their college experience most are the ones that went to state schools. Still crazy about the school two decades later, going back all the time etc. Not everyone expects the same thing out of college. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:56 AM Flag
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absolutely -don't believe the private school hype. I know many from public schools who get in [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:44 AM Flag
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im shocked. you ppl are miserable. OF COURSE HE COULD GET IN. ALL university like weird geniuses. Dont let these awful people get you down! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:49 AM Flag
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ITA. I would not count on getting in but as a reach school, absolutely go for it! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:51 AM Flag
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she was pretty clear in stating that the kid is neither weird nor a genius [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 10:11 AM Flag
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No one said not to try, but those schools only accept 10% of the applicants, and those accepted tend to be exceptional in some way. If her son has very good grades/scores but nothing else exceptional, then he shouldn't get his hopes up too high. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 01:01 PM Flag
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you are hilarious [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 05:08 PM Flag
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I also like the sports angle. Maybe teaching sports this summer to underpriviledged kids/with the special olympics can be his story. BTW, I think these things can be random - you never know, but if they still have early decision he might be better off using it for a "lesser Ivy." I went to Cornell and loved it and I would think he would stand a great shot there :). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 10:29 AM Flag
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yes, a chance. This was me [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 10:37 AM Flag
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Great grades from a reputable school and great test scores put a kid in the top 30-40 % of applicants for Ivy's. However, most of them are taking less than 10 percent of their applicants. The kids who get in are the ones with great grades who have also done something significant outside the classroom, preferably demonstrating leadership or initiative. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 11:40 AM Flag
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Try the top, smaller liberal arts schools. And some medium level ones for safety, b/c most of the kids who apply to the top small schools have the same credentials, as well. With the smaller schools, sometimes it's better for him to be from a public, b/c they only take so many students from each school, so they kids in the privates often end up keeping each other from getting in. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 11:41 AM Flag
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Well, my brother had higher than 4.0 gpa, all AP classes and got 5 on the AP's, near perfect SAT score and leadership in org'ns and volunteered a lot. Didn't get into HYP. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 04:42 PM Flag
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Again, HYP look for special distinctions, not just academics. Certainly a standout student at a TT school (in NYC or elsewhere) has an edge because the admissions officers recognize that the high school is competitive. But the kid has to has some truly special distinction beyond grades/scores to get into those schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 04:51 PM Flag
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honestly, a chance, but not a good one these days. But with colleges (unlike NYC privates), there are 10s if not 100s of places to get a great education. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 04:54 PM Flag
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not really. I was that kid and didn't get into any of them. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 06:04 PM Flag
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I completely disagree w/ pp. Depends which public school s/he attends. I hate to blow the pvt school mystique but a 4.0 or rather 95+ at any of the specialized high schools or respected programs coupled with great standardized test scores will serve him well. I head the alumni interview committe for an Ivy and can tell you that great scores in Stuy, Tech and Bx. Sci can write your ticket. Yes, if kid is at an average or less zone school s/he will have ahard road but v. good chance if not. Pvt is NOT the only way. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 06:15 PM Flag
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Of course he has a chance. These people who think that only kids from tt NYC private schools get into top universities must be the parents of such kids and are deluding themselves. And anyway, i bet that the top students at bronx science, styv etc are just as bright, if not brighter than the kids at tt schools. Not all intelligent kids have parents who can afford to, or want to, send their kids to private. It's offensive and naive to think that wealthy and/or connected kids are smarter kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.08.08, 05:54 AM Flag
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if you're still watching...this was me, and i went to yale. i didn't even have quite a 4.0 b/c i got b's in calculus [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.08.08, 10:30 AM Flag
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