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07.06.08, 18:28 PM New York City
105 replies
Does anyone feel bad for people who can't afford private school, like kids of NYC cops, firemen, bartenders, actors...? I remember when I was engaged to a very wealthy man, and I came from the above class (blue collar), anyway, I remember feeling guilty about flying first class! I'm not saying I like being blue collar again, but I don't miss the guilt. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
New York City 07.06.08, 06:28 PM Flag
 

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there are plenty of good public schools and who says that they really desire privates? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:29 PM Flag
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np: As a teacher, I can't afford to live in a good zone, but everything will work out. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:31 PM Flag
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teacher, where? manhattan or outerboro? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:05 PM Flag
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Manhattan...District 3. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:10 PM Flag
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NNP: Then move. I'm also a teacher. I can't afford district 3, but I'm in a good zone. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:36 PM Flag
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nnnp: then move is easier said than done. PPL please realize this [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:15 AM Flag
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I would think that everyone would want their kid to have the best education, I think anyone with the means would send their kids to Private, at least in NYC. I know that is not my situation, unless my child turns out to be some kind of talented genius, but if I could afford to, of course I would. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:33 PM Flag
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if your dc gets in, a big if these days, and you have enough money not to make it a huge stretch. Which eliminates most of the population [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:35 PM Flag
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private isn't for everyone. some people prefer to leave the city and do public elsewhere. private isn't the end all be all for many people [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:36 PM Flag
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np: that's us. grew up going to private, don't want it for the kids, and settled in a good public district outside the city. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:19 PM Flag
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I went to both public and private schools. While my private school education was better it was very ugly in many other ways. Happy to have my kids in a good city public but I wish we didn't have to deal with the doe's whims. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 05:42 AM Flag
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I don't. People make their choices and can afford what they can afford. Life isn't equal or fair and we just have to live with that [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:32 PM Flag
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OP: So no guilt for you! Good, it's wasted energy anyway. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:35 PM Flag
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Why on earth would anyone feel quilty about flying first class? I love getting upgraded. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:36 PM Flag
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Separate but equal sound familiar. We shouldn't feel like it is okay and just live with it. Quality education should be a right, not a privilege. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:35 PM Flag
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np: But what does that mean? Equal quality on education? That a public school in rural Alaska, a public school in NYC, a private school in Boston, and a Yeshiva in NJ should all offer essentially the same education? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:40 PM Flag
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Quality yes. They should all teach the same fundamental skills well. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:43 PM Flag
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^^^separate but equal refers to education under segregation which is kind of what it sounds like you think should be the norm. Separate but equal was not equal and was ruled against. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:44 PM Flag
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I'm not stupid. I'm familiar with the Brown case. I'm also familiar with the many rulings in which the supreme court has upheld limiting a child's access to public education according to districts/zoning. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:49 PM Flag
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I'm not saying that kids shouldn't go to school in their zones. The schools need to be fixed. There are plenty of models of successful schools in poor zones. There aren't enough of them, however. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:51 PM Flag
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Does that mean that we should ship excellent teachers off to school districts based on the notion of uniform quality of teaching? Or should we let the top teachers apply for jobs where they want to work? Obviously, it is the later. Which puts the children in some parts of the country at a huge disadvantage. Not many people dream of teaching in Buffalo County, South Dakota. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:46 PM Flag
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I grew up in the middle of nowhere and got a quality education, so your conclusion is wrong. Just dismissing the problems we have as a fact of life is not acceptable. We need to make quality education for all children. It is not always about the teacher. Frequently it is about the administration, community, etc. I am more troubled by your blanket dismissal of it as a fact of life. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:49 PM Flag
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You can't have quality education when you have so many families that can't be bothered to even bring dcs to school on time and fed breakfast, help with homework, or show up at conferences. It's a huge uphill battle. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:52 PM Flag
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That is what I said. It isn't always about the quality teachers, but a community problem as well. There is a whole part of this that everyone is overlooking, educating the adults as well. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:57 PM Flag
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You know, there are plenty of opportunities out there for adults to educate themselves. The school system nor the government cannot force adults to raise their standards for educating their own kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:00 PM Flag
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Not really. They are too busy working and can't miss work for fear of being fired and not earning money. The hours for classes aren't always worker friendly. Some parents have 2 job. , etc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:02 PM Flag
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Yeah, and what is the government going do about that? And why focus on these people rather than the slacker parents who let kids play video games and watch TV all day? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:03 PM Flag
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The parents that have two jobs actually often make sure the kids do well in school, especially the immigrant ones. It's the underemployed or unemployed ones that could not care less by and large. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:07 PM Flag
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I also grew up in the middle of nowhere. I had to fly to school everyday. To suggest that I was supposed to have the same quality education as other children is absurd. How could we have an art or a music program? Or foreign language? They had a hard enough time finding teachers who would fly in to teach math, science, english and history. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:52 PM Flag
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No, we had music and foreign language. Coaches taught science... That was a bit of a problem, but the english program was amazing. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:56 PM Flag
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So should we have eliminated your music and foreign language programs because my school couldn't find teachers for these subjects? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:58 PM Flag
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The teachers that flew in and you did too. Maybe cut the flights out, silly. Carpool or something. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:00 PM Flag
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There were no roads. How were we supposed to carpool? They constantly had a hard time recruiting and retaining students. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:02 PM Flag
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I have lived in latin america with no transport, and you walk;) There are really no active posts on this board anymore. Have a nice evening. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:07 PM Flag
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I grew up in Alaska. The distance to school was often way to far to walk (and there were few roads) and ATVs were considered too dangerous for children. So airplanes it was. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:08 PM Flag
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np: Maybe the teachers that flew in weren't qualified to teach music or foreign language. How can a math teacher with no knowledge, training, or certification in music teach music? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:03 PM Flag
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I bet they have some good teachers there. Just about every school has some really good teachers and some crappy ones too. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:50 PM Flag
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But how do you achieve teaching the skills well across all schools and districts? Some schools have huge tax bases, some have tiny ones. Some districts can attract top talent from the best pedagogy programs, some can't. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:47 PM Flag
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Uniform funding for schools. Why should poor districts that need the most help get the least amount of money? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:50 PM Flag
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Actually, poor districts do get more money, there is special money for SN students, ESL students, free lunch students etc. But if they don't get any support at home it's still not enough. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:53 PM Flag
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These students need more resources. You are preaching to the choir with the lack of home support. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:59 PM Flag
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Poor districts get more more from the federal government. They have less money for extracurriculars and non-core subjects. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:55 PM Flag
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It's kind of silly to spend money on non-core subjects if the kids can't read and do simple math. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:08 PM Flag
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Why? If the kids need extended time to learn reading and math, taking away art, music, etc. while they are learning won't speed things up. Although it may deprive them of some context for their lessons [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:11 PM Flag
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then you'd have to go with the 9-5 every day plus Saturday schedule. Which a few schools have but can be totally grueling for many kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:35 PM Flag
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OR oh for petes sake. Who said anything about that? I'm saying life isn't fair. I work hard btu not as hard as some people. I was born with some advantages but some disadvantages. Whatever. I don't feel guilty about what I have b/c I worked for it. I also know why I'm not rich. I don't want to work that hard or long. that's all [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:45 PM Flag
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So true. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 06:03 AM Flag
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If everyone actually had unlimited choice, maybe. I don't think all NYC cops had a choice between that and being an investment banker. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:42 PM Flag
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that's why I said life isn't fair. We all start off different. We all end up different. luck is a factor but in this country, most of where we end up is due to our own choices and how hard we want to work [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:46 PM Flag
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That is actually very far from true. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:47 PM Flag
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no. it is very true. Yes - luck of what family and staus you are born into has an effect. Yes - tragedy etc happens randomly. Aside from that, it's all about how hard and how smart you work. Did you pay attention in school and go to college or did you hang out do drugs and get pregnant at 16? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:48 PM Flag
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It is not true, but keep telling yourself that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:51 PM Flag
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so tell me where I'm going wrong in my thinking [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:52 PM Flag
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Read some history books. The people who work their way out of poverty are the exception, not the rule. You may work very hard and be very smart, but never have any opportunities. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:55 PM Flag
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actually, I recently saw stats from the US treasury dept that were pretty much the opposite of that. It showed that most people who were in poverty the year they started the study had moved up to middle class in 10 years time. Wish I still had the link, my computer crashed and I lost all my faves. I''l have to try to find that again. Very interesting and goes against popular thought (like yours) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:57 PM Flag
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Again, read some history books and look at how the government measures poverty. Go research impoverished American, don't rely on one gov't stat. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:00 PM Flag
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LOL! You send me to the gov't and then tell me not tp pay attention to the gov't? You are making no sense. I'm not saying it's easy but it does happen and much more than most people think. I have read plenty of history thanks and am pretty familiar with our country. Hard work and working smart will get anybody somewhere. That doesn't mean it will always make you rich, but it will nearly always make your situation better. Why so pessimistic? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:02 PM Flag
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You are right! The way the gov sets the poverty limits doesn't give an accurate picture. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:36 PM Flag
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It is not "about how hard you work and how smart you are!" Poverty, lack of parent's education, lack of parental support, dysfunctional families stir many smart kids in the direction of dismissing education early on! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:56 PM Flag
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I didn't say "how smart you are" I said how smart you work - meaning, you take whatever job us around, you learn to do it well and you move up or find something better. You don't slack off, you don't do stupid things like get pregnant young or get addicted to soemthing. I said that the luck of the draw does have an effect. Of course it does. But it doesn't mean you have no hope. Plenty of people move up out of poverty every day - mostly through hard work. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:59 PM Flag
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47 million uninsured can slide into poverty any given day due to an illness, they have no control about; they can work hard, smart, but it won't help! Read "Nickel and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:05 PM Flag
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and I gave exceptions for luck. ok? No one seems to want to hear that. Yes - luck plays a part. I was lucky to be born into a middle class family that values education. I haven't always worked hard or smart and that is why I don't have a huge house or large HHI etc. I have several friends who have through their own efforts, raised their standard of living - purly through hard work and a little luck (getting accepted to a good school, no major health issues, being in the right place at the right time etc). I refuse to belittle their acconmplishments by saying it's all luck. A huge part of it is hard work. period [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:07 PM Flag
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You certainly worked hard! But many people do but NEVER make it. Period! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:24 PM Flag
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np: Some do but many never try which is the main problem. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:37 PM Flag
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that is not true at all! That is what many people wish the US were... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:49 PM Flag
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how is it not true? Given the exceptions I listed above, it is very much true [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:50 PM Flag
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It is your choice to be ignorant about the causes of poverty, lack of education... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:00 PM Flag
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sigh. You don't read well do you? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:03 PM Flag
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sigh! You don't think well, do you? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:05 PM Flag
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LOL! You are funny [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:08 PM Flag
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You are welcome! :) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:22 PM Flag
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the American myth: Live is what you make it? Tell that the kids who go hungry during the summer because their parents can't figure out where to get free meals during the summer break [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:41 PM Flag
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I am a cop, went to college, I could have chosen any profession, I chose Law Enforcement. My kids will go to public school or Catholic school, I have to live within the city limits. I'm glad I do what I do, and hopefully my kids will marry into money...A mom can dream! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:50 PM Flag
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np and I thank you for what you do! You sound like you have a great attitude and I'm sure you don't want anyone's pity about where your kids go to school etc [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:51 PM Flag
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Right on. I don't get the posts that suggests that if one were "smart" they'd go into finance. We need police, teachers, and other professionals who run our cities. Our culture couldn't function if everyone was a banker. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 06:06 AM Flag
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You don't loose sleep over the social inequalities. Good for you! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:46 PM Flag
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Why should "we just have to live with that"? What about fighting for better health care/insurance, more reasonable drug laws (less prison time for users), universal Pre-K and so on! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:54 PM Flag
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feel bad for the majority of the population? no. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:33 PM Flag
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They live in outer boroughs which believe it or not have some decent schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:34 PM Flag
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Yes, my trouble living in district 6 is that there are no good middle schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:37 PM Flag
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I don't feel bad for them. I grew up with very little money, and that was no reason to pity me. It would be better if there was a more even, uniform approach to public education in NYC with higher standards across the board. But I would want that for everyone, not only the middle class, working class, and poor. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:38 PM Flag
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i don't feel guilty about material things, but I do feel guilty about things like the injustices that often accompany poverty (like hunger among young children or poor medical care, etc) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:39 PM Flag
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I grew up on Staten Island, home of many a NYC blue collar worker. Most of the ones I know (and I know plenty) send their dcs to parochial schools, and while it's a sacrifice for them, they live like regular middle class folks and pretty nice lives. Most of the regular people in this city know how to work out a nice life for themselves and their families. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:41 PM Flag
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exactly. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:09 PM Flag
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blue collar workers are not the only ones who can't afford private school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:42 PM Flag
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Well, I did not know how to phrase it, I don't know what the income level is that is the cut off of too expensive to afford private schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:44 PM Flag
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Are you asking if the top 1% pities the rest of the population? No. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:42 PM Flag
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and you know a lot of them? BTW - I don't think that is what OP meant [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:47 PM Flag
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There are a million children in public school in NYC. I highly doubt they are the subject of mass pity. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:50 PM Flag
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LOL! I meant the top 1%/ How many of them do you know? And all she said was those of us who were not blue collar. That does not imply top 1% to me [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:53 PM Flag
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Given the socio-economic dynamic of NYC, you would have to be in the top 1% to afford private school (without FA). NYC has a huge number of families with very very low HHI. What many on this board consider middle class (100K, 200K, etc) is already in the top 5%. And you would have a hard time sending a child to private school on that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:01 PM Flag
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And most of them never even think about private schools, either. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 06:53 PM Flag
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OP: I didn't really mean do you "pity" these poor kids, I just meant do you ever feel a little guilty, that's all, I expected no response, it was supposed to be a light Post...I never imagined this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:01 PM Flag
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No, we couldn't afford private school, don't think about it, but I'm laughing at you, so thanks for the chuckle. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:08 PM Flag
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Why are you laughing at me? In a nasty way? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:17 PM Flag
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I don't know. All the firemen I know make over $100K a year, since they're more than five years in and have plenty of time off to have a second career. Since their schedules are so flexible, most I know also don't pay for any daycare. They're also always the coaches for their kids' teams. And many even send their kids to parochial schools. And they'll retire in their early 40s with full pension and benefits for their family. Is that sad? You tell me! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:12 PM Flag
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^^^must be the wife of a cop. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:19 PM Flag
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sister of a happy fireman! :) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:23 PM Flag
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firemen have a great life...except for that whole "running into burning buildings" thing. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:20 PM Flag
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they have a dangerous job, sure, esp depending on where they work in the city. but they'll tell you themselves: it's the greatest job you'll ever have. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:23 PM Flag
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I know lots of fireman. They all love their jobs. But, yes, it is dangerous. Read a stat once that firemen suffer more fatalities than any other profession in the US. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:26 PM Flag
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I think 9/11 sadly tipped those stats. And firefighters in the US, if you're including firefighters who fight wildfires, yes, that's extremely dangerous. But NYFD really isn't suffering fatalities on a large scale when you consider the size of the dept. and the city, thank God [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:28 PM Flag
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I know children with parents from two of those those backgrounds in private school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 07:59 PM Flag
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Do you feel guilty for marrying money? Maybe you should donate it. Create a fund to pay private school tuition for "blue collar" children. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 07:24 AM Flag
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blue collar mom here. The ppl who can't outright afford Private school tuitions are perfect for the FA the schools offer. You just need to apply [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.07.08, 09:14 AM Flag
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