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07.05.08, 15:06 PM NY Schools
58 replies
The scores on the olsat were overall much higher than last year. i think there were a few 34s, a couple of 35s and one 36 (my dc's) that I saw posted about here. Many who got into Anderson had scores in the 20s. there are two possibilities: 1) The test this year was an easier version. 2) The prepping that happened this year was more organized and effective since there was no KTSS, and the test was only announced in the fall, a couple of months before it was given. It could be the 2 factors at play, but I would not count on the super high scores next year. The doe could use a harder version, netting only 250 99s. We shall see. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
NY Schools 07.05.08, 03:06 PM Flag
 

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Whatever it is all meaningless [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 03:09 PM Flag
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Too much testing anyway. DOE is testing crazy. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 03:10 PM Flag
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agree. we took it last year. the 99s I know this year aren't what I would think of as...well, um...99s. agree that anderson had a bunch of low scorers. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 03:13 PM Flag
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lol. love posters like these. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 03:43 PM Flag
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yep. She saw a kid on the playground twice and feels qualified to guess kid's IQ score. Give it a rest. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 04:26 PM Flag
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funny. overheard an anderson mom at the playground asking another mom whose dc had just been accepted for K if he was "a 99." The woman looked flummoxed. meanwhile i was thinking this anderson mom's kid probably got in with a lower score, and she likely was appalled when the OLSAT was announced as the test. Now she runs around checking scores. I just shook my head. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 03:49 PM Flag
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ha! Same thing happened to me. Dumbfounded, frankly. btw, my kid can run circles aorund hers. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 06:25 PM Flag
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np: yes, but they went on and on about how their low scoring kids were to gifted to score highly. said the smartest kids who "think out of the box" are more likely to choose a creative answer. Now they are all running around checking 99 credentials. hysterical really. a bunch of silly sheep is what this process produces. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 06:35 PM Flag
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This is so absurd. As if you're some expert on what a "99" kid looks like. Get over yourself, and fast. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:09 PM Flag
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actually, I am. there are 99s...and then there are 99s. you will see this in the classroom, I assure you. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:17 PM Flag
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Then please tell us what you see as distinguishing characteristics of "true" 99s, as opposed to the imposters? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:21 PM Flag
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you know as well as I do. there are the kids who are obviously smart. inquisitive, knowledgable beyond their years or peers, able to think conceptually like an adult, vocabulary like a college educated adult and on and on. then there are the average kids that no one would see as particularly smart. both kids get a 99. tell me they are both gifted. the ceiling on the olsat is so low as not to distinguish these two kids. it will be obvious to you one day if it isn't already. In fact, if it isn't obvious to you, you likely don't have one of the true 99s. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:29 PM Flag
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NP: LOL! If you have to ask... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:32 PM Flag
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I believe intelligence (not to mention "talent" which is so often latent in 4 yos) is a multifaceted thing that can easily defy generalizations. I hear so much about all the SB 98 and SB 99s who didn't even score 90% on the OLSAT. So, how do you account for that? Also, I love the fact that because I disagree with you, you can't resist insulting me and my dc. Please, go back to judging which kids are a true 99 and which aren't. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:42 PM Flag
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obviously there is no perfect system, and some kids will be gifted and some not. I don't personally think the SB is predictive in 4 yos either. I also think discrepencies between these tests may well have to do with the method of administration and exposure. what I am saying is that some kids will be gifted, and some won't be--even with scores in the higher range required for a citywide. I don't think all 99s are equal. in fact, some kids who are even 95s might be the truly gifted kids. the hype and craziness need to stop. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:55 PM Flag
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NP: I disagree. Intelligence is not so hard to distinguish, and though multifaceted, we do have ideas about what constitutes intelligence in an individual. When it is not apparent, it is likely very specific, and thus, not the broad type of intelligence we usually mean. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 08:11 PM Flag
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Give me a break, 4 year olds don't necessarily show all that they know to adults who are not their parents. Even teachers don't always recognize giftedness. My brilliant husband, was so introverted as a small child that many people thought he was retarted. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 08:24 AM Flag
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maybe there are some asperger's kids like your dh, but there are some kids who are obviously gifted, and whether by test or onste or just casual observation, you can't miss it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 08:47 AM Flag
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He doesn't have aspergers; he just didn't perform parlor tricks to impress the adults in his life. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 08:53 AM Flag
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not talking about kids performing parlor tricks. just very exceptional kids who could not hide if they wanted to. surely, you have seen some like this. or perhaps you were blinded by your own narrow experience, and decided to dismiss them as being tricksters. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 09:31 AM Flag
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Guess what. I don't make it my business to judge other people's children. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 09:36 AM Flag
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well, your parlor tricks comment certainly made that less than apparent. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 03:12 PM Flag
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mine, too. He was in special ed one year and then moved to gifted classes the next. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 12:51 PM Flag
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Yikes! Well my dc got a "99" and she definitely doesn't seem genius smart to me, and I cant tell why she would have got it over some of her classmates. But depressing to see this level of spite (?) or ire (?) against her type. In any event - thrilled at the option the 99 got us, and am sure she won't be the only one who isn't the next Steven Hawkings. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 02:36 PM Flag
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I could have written the same exact post. So many people make the mistake of treating the OLSAT like it's some diagnostic test. It's all about getting into a good program, that's it. It measures a dc's ability to listen, follow instructions and school readiness. The whole debate over SB versus OLSAT is entirely misplaced. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 02:44 PM Flag
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I think people are responding to the posts in which parents were asked if their kids were "99s" when they told people the kid was accepted to anderson or other citywide. I think making a big deal about scores is silly, since some kids with that score will be gifted and some not. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 02:51 PM Flag
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yes, that is what I am trying to say. the people running around revealing scores and asking others are the insecure people who have kids they worry will not do well at the school they are going to, or feel the parents with gifted kids will judge theirs. so they cling to the score and hope and pray...what do they say? live by the sword, die by the sword? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 03:14 PM Flag
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Using harder test is the very last thing DOE needs. They already had to lower the cutoff and still ended up with far fewer G&T-eligible kids than in the past. I am sure it would go over really well if they came up with even harder test next year. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 04:26 PM Flag
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but the olsat has numerous versions. some will be harder, and some easier. the scores will vary from year to year, despite prepping. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 04:38 PM Flag
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^^^although I do think the organized prepping has helped the scores of many. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 04:42 PM Flag
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Of course the prepping has helped. And while the test may be harder next year, I suspect it will be only marginally so. DOE has no choice, they can't keep around the same test for another year. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 05:34 PM Flag
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there are many versions of this test. last years scores were significantly lower overall. the prepping made a big difference too, but even the highest scorers last year did not have perfect scores. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 06:14 PM Flag
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agree. there are different versions of the test. some years will be harder than others, just like ela/math tests. they cannot guarantee an exactly equivalent test, particularly in 4 yos since the data is still being collected. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 04:27 PM Flag
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really, what is the point of this post? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 05:35 PM Flag
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one is that prepping may have ruined the usefulness of the test, and two, the version of the test being used in a particular year may determine how many 99s there are. no need to build more citywides just yet. probably only 25% of those 99s will be actually gifted anyway. the rest just reasonably smart well-prepped kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 06:41 PM Flag
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I think this year's test was just too easy. They need a higher ceiling for next year's test. It's really hard to say how much prepping had an impact on the scores. For one thing, there is a huge range of what people consider "prepping," and even the most arduous prepping efforts still cannot guarantee a top score when you're talking about a 4 yo. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 06:59 PM Flag
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some kids will score highly without prepping and consistently. some are not as consistent, and maybe not as smart, and require prepping to do well. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:05 PM Flag
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But there's such a wide variety of "prepping" that goes on. Plus, not all kids are amenable to prepping, regardless of their intelligence. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:07 PM Flag
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well, I think you will see a broad range with in the 99s in these schools just like was seen at the G&Ts this year. some kids with high scores will be very smart, some not. also, some with lower scores will be at the top of the class. there will be a range, no doubt. of course there has always been a range in all programs, but I think the prepping will increase the liklihood of a broad range. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:12 PM Flag
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And I'm sure you would have seen similar patterns in the older classes, the ones who were selected for admission via the onsite process. There's no perfect system. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:15 PM Flag
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of course. from TT privates to H/A, there ahs always been a range. but people were "chosen" so no one questioned it openly, and everyone tried to believe in the system (at least publicly). the prepping factor has always been in the system, as well. just wondering if the prepping for the olsat this year didn't take it to a new level which might contibute to a greater range than previously [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:22 PM Flag
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This is all ridiculous. Even at the college level, at HYP, there are kids with different kinds of intelligence. It's FINE!!! Just go read a book. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 04:18 AM Flag
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np: I went to harvard, and I agree that there are those gifted writers or mathmeticians, but there is also a range of intelligence. some people did not seem especially smart, just well prepared or with the right stuff 9c0nnections, good HS, etc). this is true for every school. a range will exist, not just all G&T, but in different things. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 08:50 AM Flag
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Plenty of people questioned the onsite selection process, in fact they still do every year with Hunter. Any process is bad if your dc is not one that gets in. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 08:11 AM Flag
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Stanford Binet had a higher ceiling, was almost impossible to prep for, was consistent year to year, and is regarded by the vast majority of people in the field of gifted education, to be the most reliable test. Nothing is perfect. Some brilliant children will always be missed by any test. But with the Stanford Binet, if a child got a 99, you could count on the fact that that child was gifted. The OLSAT is preppable, has a low ceiling, doesn't allow for creativity (those parents may be obnoxious, but they're not crazy) and doesn't reliably test for giftedness in any case. It's a travesty. And the reason some people care, is that if you have a really gifted child (which is a mixed blessing and means nothing about how successful, valuable or happy he or she will be as an adult), you want to keep up the level of braininess in a gifted program; otherwise, the teachers start teaching down to where the stragglers are. Given the paucity of accelerated programs, why don't they go back to the Stanford Binet, and just let in those 99's? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 12:33 PM Flag
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Educational psychologist here: You don't really have reliable/replicated data comparing these tests, so although you sound knowledgeable, you are just giving your opinion. The test is a good one, but it is true that the person who created the ktss allowed for almost perfect prepping. the SB is preppable, but to my nowledge there is not a commercially available test that is so easy to obtain that mimics the SB. If there were, you would see a drastic increase in scores. I think the company that created the olsat has a pretty good case for copyright infringement against that author. the DOE also may have a case, since the author rendered the test less effective by undercutting the copyright. My feeling is that some of the kids scoring highly will be gifted, and some not...particularly those who were highly prepped. Some kids will be missed with this test as well. But putting so much faith in the SB is senseless. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 02:43 PM Flag
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^^^highly will be gifted, and some not...particularly those who were highly prepped. Some kids will be missed with this test as well. But putting so much faith in the SB is senseless [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 02:45 PM Flag
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also, its not feasible. so good studies need to be done comparing the two tests, and now that they have the data to do this, let's hope someone jumps on it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 02:46 PM Flag
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np: I have been wondering what legal steps the DOE might take against the KTSS lady, since I think the DOE is under some contract with Harcourt Brace to continue using the OLSAT for at least a few more years. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 02:45 PM Flag
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NP: In response to SB poster above, using the SB for NYC public school selection is impossible: way too costly to administer, and there would not even be enough test administrators available to do this. The OLSAT is an imperfect but readily available alternative. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 12:36 PM Flag
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how do you know it was easy? Did you take it or administer it? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 12:36 PM Flag
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I don't know for sure, but my dc got a perfect score on it and I'm certain there were others who did also. To me, that meant the ceiling wasn't high enough. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 12:38 PM Flag
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^^^ Oh, and plus, the fact that there were 450 kids who scored 99%. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 12:39 PM Flag
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maybe the NYC kids are just smarter than the nationwide average [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 12:43 PM Flag
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I don't buy that argument. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 12:44 PM Flag
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last year the scores were much lower. either prepping is highly effective or the test was an easier version this year. OTOH, the longer version for later grades may have been difficult. many kids who got 99s last year, did not even make the cutoff this year. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.06.08, 02:26 PM Flag
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I own a prep service for OLSAT and prepped kids DO better because we teach them to understand the language of the test. Many bright children do not talk in relation to their surroundings, like above, below and in between,etc... but this language is used on the test repeatedly. That is just one simple explanation for improved scores. I find that in my own sample population that children in higher income homes do not always do as well as you would think - they grow up with nannys influencing their speech and vocabulary, the middle income families who are well educated and spend time with the kids do the best. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 12:34 PM Flag
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How do I sign up my DD? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.28.08, 12:52 PM Flag
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