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07.04.08, 11:36 AM Toddler
74 replies
I am horrified by the obesssion of this board with "cheating" parents. Has it always been a topic of discussion or is it obession du jour? I am pretty new to schools as my dd is only 3. I do live in a 'crummy" zone and will probably send dd to private if she gets in. If she doesn't I will use someone else's address. I think it is equally 'immoral" to excpect me to send my dd to a school that offers substandard education while I pay the same taxes as the rest of you. In additon, reporting someone to authorities is equally immoral! Would you ever tell your children to denouce people? [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
Toddler 07.04.08, 11:36 AM Flag
 

Dear UrbanBaby community,

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If your public school is substandard, it is your obligation as a taxpaying parent to IMPROVE it, not try to do an end-run AROUND it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 11:43 AM Flag
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and how many did you improve? I have no idea how to improve a school and it might be impossible to do even if I tried! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 11:45 AM Flag
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You organize the other neighborhood parents into what's called a P.T.A. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 11:46 AM Flag
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oh, pls stop with this nonsense already. It must be so easy to say to go and improve a school. Isn't it? Besides, this is not the answer to the questions I posted. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 11:49 AM Flag
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Stop with YOUR nonsense already. You want a ready-made solution tailored to your wants, and it's not happening. Get over it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 11:52 AM Flag
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np: You are naive. One parent or a small group cannot change a school. My zone school is on the failing schools list. The principal was dismissed for drunk driving and they had no administrative structure for that year and have not recovered fully from that and were substandard to start with. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 01:40 PM Flag
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So move. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 04:11 PM Flag
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NP: It's people like you who have destroyed this city. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:54 PM Flag
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^^^ YOU move. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:59 PM Flag
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Ick-the facile, if you can't afford to live in a decent zone you shouldn't be here, suck it up and move squad is back. Lying sucks, judging people also sucks. Buying into the bs that you should need to be paying massive taxes, rent or mtg, in order for your kids to get a decent public education, is simply ignorant, delusional and falsely entitled. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 01:05 PM Flag
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BS. It should not be the parents responsibility to fix the schools. The city should be making all schools equally strong. (I do disagree about using someone else's address, though. I think it's cheating.) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 12:21 PM Flag
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So what? Call it what you will. If you lived in that zone, you'd do the same or even worse -- prep your kids for the SB & ERBs! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:55 PM Flag
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I have tried to improve my child's school. I have devoted many many hours and much hard work to make it better. Other parents come up and thank me for my efforts. But I don't think there's much that parents can do. We can't hire teachers, give teachers pointers, change curriculum, hire or choose professional development. Parents can't do anything but raise money - if they have it - to get asst teachers and some extra perks. But assistant teachers and extra perks are not the essence of a good education. You need a strong leader, you need good teachers, you need a coherent and effective curriculum. Parents can not have any impact on any of those three things. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 09:24 PM Flag
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Well said. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 11:57 AM Flag
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I am not categorically against cheating, but I think it is rotten at school that is overcrowded & zoned kids can't even get a spot, like 234 & 321 starting next year if the DOE sticks with their plan. To me, this begs the question of whether we should do away w/ zoned schools & just do lotteries within districts. I live in Bklyn, where we have way more districts than Manhattan, FYI. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 11:48 AM Flag
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Why would you not get into your zoned school if you live there? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 11:51 AM Flag
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np--PS 234 and PS 89 in lower Manhattan have both placed some zoned kids on a waiting list for kindergarten this fall. (K is not mandatory in NY state.) They definitely are both crowded schools, but I think the principals may want to instigate some action by the powers that be to deal with overcrowding as well. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 12:23 PM Flag
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^^^ Both principals have said they would prefer half-day K to turning kids away. Half-day K would also give them a year to come up with other solutions. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 12:27 PM Flag
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np: I would LOVE if it if there were half day K. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 01:09 PM Flag
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I feel hald-day K is in many ways preferable to a full-day [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 06:34 AM Flag
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But 234 and 89 are overcrowded because the neighborhoods have been built up with no thought given to more schools. it's not cheaters crowding those schools. it's poor city planning. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 01:14 PM Flag
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I agree [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 01:18 PM Flag
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Yes, that would be absolutely fair and moral when lotteries would decide the schools. I am sure if that were the case, there would not be any crappy schools as a result. I might move to a different zone and register my dd to an already overcrowded zone. The school will be even more overcrowded but you will not have a scapegoat --the out of zone- to blame. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 11:54 AM Flag
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Wasn't there a lottery for all Manhattan District 1 schools this year? Can anyone report how it turned out? I wonder if this was a trial run for other, larger districts. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 12:25 PM Flag
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District 3 has held a lottery for unfilled seats for years. BUT that is not the same thing. A lottery for all of D2 with no zoned schools is not a vialbe option. D2 covers a huge area. You would have people in Tribeca sending their dc to a school on the UES with a lottery. It simply is not a good option. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 01:11 PM Flag
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District 2 is too big. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 01:38 PM Flag
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np: This lottery is a huge failure considering the purpose of it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 01:43 PM Flag
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D6 is huge, full of failing schools, no g&ts and lowest rung clingers for any left-over d3lottery seats(which is over anyway.D2 is huge but has several excellent options. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 01:14 PM Flag
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ITA, but thankfully we were never in a situation where it came to that for our dcs -got into a good "choice" public elementary years ago. I think concept of "denouncing" is horrific - it is up to every person and his/her conscience to do what is right and best for his/her dcs. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 12:20 PM Flag
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I think it will be very difficult in future to use someone elses address. One document has to now come from the state or government. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 12:32 PM Flag
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It's very easy to get a driver's license with another address. When we moved, I just gave them our new address. The license is mailed to the new address though. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 01:06 PM Flag
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NP: The DOE is using new procedures now, as of June 2008. They require 2 proofs of address, and there are new rules about investigating claims of address falsification. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 06:29 AM Flag
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a driver's license is not allowed as proof of residence at our school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 01:02 PM Flag
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[ Removed by moderator ] [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 01:05 PM Flag
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No, this is my first post insipred by a post on a board comparing out of zone kids to thieves. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 01:57 PM Flag
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I plan on getting dd in an out of zone school. I teach in another district and can't afford to have a nanny or have someone else do drop off and pick up, so I hope to get her in the ps across the street from my school. Most of our teachers do the same. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 01:42 PM Flag
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Horrified? Get a life. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 02:03 PM Flag
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And you have one? What are you doing on this board then? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:57 PM Flag
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I'll be completely honest, we cheated to get our 2dcs into their school, we're now out to the assistant principal, who couldn't care less and I am content that, since our dcs placed into G&T in the school, they're bringing as much value tot he school as they are receiving from it, and even possibly more. I feel no guilt at all about it, mostly b/c I know, from my mom being a BOE teacher for 35 years, that we could have gotten the exact same result simply be being squeaky wheels. And when our 2yo DS is ready for pre-K, I'll do the same exact thing- and push for a full-day placement. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 09:54 PM Flag
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good for you [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 01:12 AM Flag
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^^^ adding, isn't it only the first dc you had to cheat in? aren't they all in now no problem? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 01:13 AM Flag
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no, they ask for an address w/every kid. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 01:03 PM Flag
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Good luck with #3. The DOE is cracking down hard on address falsification. I doubt you will get away with it now. Totally different ballgame these days. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 06:14 AM Flag
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bringing value to a school? that's what a smart dc does? and the dumb ones are, what? taking value away? you are so repugnant on so many levels. agree that the doe is cracking down and i for one hope your whole family gets kicked out. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:50 PM Flag
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np: i tried really hard to improve my child's public school. worked MANY hours for the PA, volunteered, tutored some LEP kids because the principal was too lame to get them the ESL they needed, tried to fund-raise. I wound up frustrated and bitter, and -- bottom line -- my kid really suffered from being 4 years in a bad school. We fled to private, fortunately with generous FA. Agree that it's a bit much to expect parents to fix a system that is so broken, and particularly resent this when it comes from parents who live in neighborhoods i can't afford. In retrospect, i really wish I had though of lying to try for a better school. I would feel less guilty about that than I do about compromising my child's education. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 12:57 AM Flag
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How on earth is reporting on cheating an immoral act?? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 06:07 AM Flag
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I am amazed at the OP's attitude, and the poster above who is completely unrepentant about cheating for her first 2 dcs, and plans to cheat for the 3rd. I guess honesty and playing by the rules is now a thing of the past in NYC? I find this disgusting. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 06:13 AM Flag
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big ditto [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 06:38 AM Flag
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Well said. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:15 AM Flag
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It's not like your only option is to cheat or send your DD to a bad school. If your zoned school is so awful, why don't you move? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:14 AM Flag
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Of course people are obsessed: it's not like this is a victimless crime. If you cheat your way into a spot, you may bump a kid who's actually entitled to that spot. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:19 AM Flag
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np:or think about the lack of diversity it creates at the zone school especially when many may be doing it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 08:23 AM Flag
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Your daughter is 3. You have time. If your zoned school is so bad, why don't you move to a zone that's better? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 07:21 AM Flag
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OK, I see at least 4 "Why don't you just move?" posts. Am I just missing all those apartments around PS 234, 6, 199 that are the same price as the ones in Washington Heights or Bushwick? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 11:25 AM Flag
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Where does it say in the rule book that you're entitled to a large, cheap apartment and the ability to cheat your way into a school you're not zoned for? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 11:29 AM Flag
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I have a small apartment -- that i can afford. if you have large and cheap up for grabs i'll take it. my point is that it is not so easy to move into a good district. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 11:33 AM Flag
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np Well, if you're a cheater, I hope you get caught. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 12:08 PM Flag
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Where in my post does it say i am a cheater? i am not. I live in a crappy neighborhood and work a job I don't much like to pay for private school with FA for which i am very grateful. You seem to be looking for a fight -- why? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.05.08, 01:51 PM Flag
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If you are zoned for a crappy public and can't afford private then try the Catholics before you put yourself through the stressful cheating process. Catholic schools offer an excellent academic education at a fraction of the cost of private schools. Their graduation rates blow NYC public schools away, and their students consistently outperform NYC public schools on standardized tests. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:02 PM Flag
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Well, if you insist on living in a glass house, look out for the hailstorm. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:06 PM Flag
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And when they find you out -- and hopefully they will -- your dd will get yanked from her school! Ha ha ha! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:13 PM Flag
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EEEwww-you're so some wretched Steinbeck character. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 01:16 PM Flag
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I would never do it, personally, because I think it is such a horrible message to send to the child you are acting on behalf of. Basically it's "if you're not entitled to something, cheat so you can still get it". We used to live in a crummy zone, couldn't afford private or a better one in NYC, so now we live in NJ. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:17 PM Flag
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while i do other things people deem "immoral" and "cheating" i have to say that i wouldn't lie to get into a school. but i haven't been in that position yet. someone i know told me she did it and for some reason it pissed me off. i would never report her though [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:29 PM Flag
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fine. you can gnash your teeth over my morals all you want as they are dragging you and your dc out of my school. because i would rat you out in a heartbeat. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:33 PM Flag
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Amen!! Me too!! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:39 PM Flag
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i can almost forgive this of someone who is too poor to afford a good zone. but an entitled sh&t like you who can pay for private but wants to sneak her way into a good zone? what's the matter? the mortgage payment on that brownstone in harlem too good to give up? eff you. and stay the f&ck away from my school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:35 PM Flag
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lol! totally agree. if you can afford private - go. leave a space at the good public schools to the rest of us who aren't so "fortunate." [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:39 PM Flag
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ditto. op should move off her (indefensible) "moral" high ground and into a good zone. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:43 PM Flag
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hey, she's robin hood mom! rob from the rich and give to the...oh, right. she's rich, too. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:47 PM Flag
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sounds like she robs from the poor to me [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:47 PM Flag
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OK - but in general, people in great school districts are, in fact, paying way more in property taxes than someone in bad districts. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:39 PM Flag
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Hate to break the news to you -- there really is no Santa Claus. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 12:50 PM Flag
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frightening. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 02.24.09, 01:04 PM Flag
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