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07.04.08, 06:29 AM NY Schools
26 replies
If you don't like your zoned school, didn't get g&t, lost all the lotteries, and can't afford parochial or private, is it OK to embezzle money in order to pay for a private education? Remember, when your child's education is at stake, everything is OK, right? No, seriously, I want someone out there to explain to me why it is more OK to lie and cheat into an unzoned seat, than it is to steal money to pay for a private seat. I just can't wait to see how the justifiers (whom we all know did it themselves) explain this one. When replying, please don't use the excuse that it doesn't cost anyone anything when you lie your way into an unzoned school. The "desirable" publics tend to have high levels of fundraising from the wealthy zoned parents, which money is then divided over a greater populaton when it includes the kids whose parents snuck them in. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
NY Schools 07.04.08, 06:29 AM Flag
 

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I'll bite. My dc's attend a school that has kids who use false addresses to attend. There is also a great deal of fundraising from parents. I never cared that the kids parents used false addresses. Frankly...they were parents who were motivated to get the best for their kids. They got their kids to school on time, had them do their homework, participated in fundraisers. They were terrific members of the school community and their kids benefitted from a quality education. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:21 AM Flag
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np: It's irrelevant that they were valued members of the school community. They didn't belong there. If you falsified high school transcripts, SAT scores, and teacher recs and got into Stanford...you would be wrong. Regardless of how you performed at Stanford. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:25 AM Flag
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No, it's not irrelevant. They were parents who seek the best for their kids. They couldn't afford to move to the zone, but used grandma's zoned address. It's a microcosm of the illegal immigration debate...they come to better their lot in life, albeit illegally. If they are contributing to society, do they have value? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:29 AM Flag
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Everyone has value. But the best thing for kids is to have parents they can use as a moral compass. NOT parents who teach them, "Get what you want, what's best for you, no matter what you have to do to get it." Minor differences in educational quality, should be secondary to a firm foundation in character development. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:32 AM Flag
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NNP: I really disagree that anyone who wants the best for their kids teaches those kids that it's okay to lie to get what you want. Terrible example. If the parents were really concerned, they should have chosen a zone with a decent school that they could afford--they do exist. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:34 AM Flag
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NNNP: ITA. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:34 AM Flag
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It would really be best for my kids to take private swimming lessons. But I can't afford them. So I'll use a stranger's credit card number. I'm bettering their lives, and they will contribute to society later on when they're lifeguards, so it's all OK, right? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:34 AM Flag
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nnp: I think you make a good point here. I wouldn't falsify an address myself, but I would also try hard not to judge those who do. Every circumstance is different, and while cheating is cheating, I believe to some degree in moral relativism. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:34 AM Flag
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I do too--believe in moral relativism. Which is why I believe something you do for survival is OK. But education is not survival. Even then, relatively, if you were in Africa and had to lie to get any education at all, maybe that would be relatively OK. But getting a moderately better education is not morally relatively OK, in the scale of the world's moral issues. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:36 AM Flag
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Exactly. If you have to lie in order to feed your family, that's one thing. This is something else. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:39 AM Flag
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But I WANT it? Isn't that a good enough reason? I mean really. This is America! I should have anything I want, regardless of where I live or what I can afford. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:24 AM Flag
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Or how it affects anyone else. It's all about me, me, me. Or rather mini-me, mini-me, mini-me. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:30 AM Flag
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np. Keep your bald-headed dwarf out of it! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:38 AM Flag
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LOL! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:41 AM Flag
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:) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:59 AM Flag
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What you're really objecting to is that families (and I'm thinking of those with truly limited means) get their children a better quality education by using a false address. It has to be that, because it can't be about public tax dollars since high performing schools actually get LESS in per-pupil funding than low performing ones that get more federal money in addition to city/state funding. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:39 AM Flag
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Not tax dollars. Fundraising dollars. And overcrowded rooms mean less resources per child. It's rarely those of truly limited means doing this, by the way. It's the entitled middle classes who turn up their noses at adequate schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:42 AM Flag
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And your point is? If the high-performing schools get less in per-pupil funding, then overcrowding hurts them even more. So the more kids that fake their way in, the more strapped they get. So the fact that they get fewer tax dollars per child mean that people should be even more pissed about the cheaters. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:44 AM Flag
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NP: I'm a teacher (on leave now) and the kids in my classes who got there unfairly have always been from relatively well-to-do families (who usually tell me they've used someone else's address). My other kids from outside the zone who are truly disadvantaged got there legally by appealing through NCLB. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:44 AM Flag
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Fair enough, but at the school I'm thinking of, those who've used relatives addresses are working class or on public assistance, and no, it hasn't bothered me. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:47 AM Flag
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It bothers me because it's not a good situation for the kids. If they live outside the zone, it's harder for them to have friends at the school and the commute can be arduous. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:50 AM Flag
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^^This in addition to the general dishonesty. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:51 AM Flag
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In the situations I'm thinking of, the commutes were probably less than those of kids who travel to G&T or private schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:54 AM Flag
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I did not do it myself. But you could argue that it is public school, which is supposed to give all equal access to equal education. It has failed and you can't blame people for trying to get what their dc deserves. We all pay taxes, but not all are equally served by the public system [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:57 AM Flag
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That's the fairest way I've ever seen expressed. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 08:17 AM Flag
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I undestand why the schools sytem allows fundraising, but I really think they shouldn't--or if they do, the money should be split across all schools in the city. I think there is something wrong with a neighborhood esentially being able to buy into a public school and then enhance it in order to make sure their children get a better education than others in the system. They should create their own privates if that's what they want to do. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 10:23 AM Flag
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