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07.03.08, 12:57 PM General Topics
41 replies
I do not believe you. To those of you standing on your high moral ground on the school issue, with your dcs firmly in place at a school you like, because you rolled the dice somehow and got lucky: You would cheat the system if it meant getting a seat at a better school for your child. You have not walked that path, and unless you do you do NOT know that you would choose so-called "morals" over the safety and education of your child. But it's very easy for you to point fingers and judge from where you sit. And let's be honest here -- you don't care so much about how kids are getting in, as what types of kids are sitting next to your dcs. And you know it. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
General Topics 07.03.08, 12:57 PM Flag
 

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We left NYC, so don't you lecture me. You can keep posting this all day, doesn't make you right. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 12:59 PM Flag
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^^And in the school we used to go to, the only people I knew who were cheating to get into it were upper-middle class people who liked having a bigger apt./brownstone and a "cooler" neighborhood but wanted the "better" school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:00 PM Flag
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NP: ITA. I think I would forgive it more if I thought the truly disadvantaged were gaming the system for their advantage, but the ones that I know have done it in our school have been white and middle class and not necessarily zoned for the worst schools (just not quite as good a school). The indigent, poor, and uneducated (and usually more highly pigmented) families don't really have the wherewithal to figure out how to do this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:19 PM Flag
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lying is lying, regardless of SES. I think if a person is without the ability to move or go private, and their only option is to lie to get into a safe school, then so be it. I would not put my 4-5 yo in an unsafe school. would rather lie than have dc be harmed in any way. if those are the stakes, so be it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:42 PM Flag
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But there are gradations to what can be considered "harm". I think most people would agree that they would not put their dc in a school where they may be physically hurt, but most of the parents doing this are not zoned for the truly unsafe school (there really aren't that many). Are we talking about harm, in that dc will be exposed to dcs who are not as smart, or who do not speak English well, or are different culturally? Or as not as bright as the peer group that the better school has? And if so, is it worth teaching dc to lie in order to do that? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:49 PM Flag
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OR: Exactly. None of the mothers I have seen here are at risk of their child being physically hurt or the like. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:59 PM Flag
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read the post below where a 6 yo was sodomized. just sayin... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 02:52 PM Flag
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Yikes. Well, that's the first I've heard here or IRL of such a situation. Everyone I know is scamming to get from PS 8 into 29 or the like. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 02:54 PM Flag
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we are at a city wide, and I agree with you. we would have moved for a couplke of years (as allowed by our coop board) to a good zone if it hadn't worked out, and then moved back later. I think if I had no resources, I might consider lying. But if I had the ability finacially to go elsewhere, I would have done that. Mostly because I do not like lying or would not imagine my dc lying about it. so we would have moved, but we would have considered doing something else the next year or moving for good to the new zone. fwiw, you can keep testing dc for G&T. your options may well open up for 1st grade or beyond. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:17 PM Flag
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Yep, that's us - I would've sent DC to not-great zoned for a year or more if bombed tests, then tried again for G&T or unzoned, or if necessary sublet our 1 bedroom in a bad zone and rented an even smaller place we can afford even less in a good zone as long as our coop board would let us do that, then move back. But my last choice would be to lie and make DC lie. But I suppose if my zoned school was truly dangerous, I would consider lying temporarily until I could figure out something else. Ever seen A Tree Grows in Brooklyn? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:39 PM Flag
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dcs are not in place at school yet and no i wouldn't lie. if they don't get into their zoned school, i would move out of nyc - not something i would want to do. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:41 PM Flag
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why not just find a small apt in a good zone and try again for G&T? why is everyone so extreme here? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:43 PM Flag
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that could work also. i just meant that i would move before i would cheat. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:46 PM Flag
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Because this is UB. Everything is black or white. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:52 PM Flag
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I'm always amazed that people think they know my heart better than I do. I'll do what I can, within the system, to take care of me and mine. But I won't cheat. Period. I think that what you teach your kid by cheating is way more important to his/er overall development than the difference between two schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:44 PM Flag
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depends on type of cheating. I would rent in a good zone temporarily according to the rules required (1 yr or whatever) and then move back, depending on whether I could sell my apt or not. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:47 PM Flag
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Not cheating then according to the DOE rules. You would not have to tell your dc to lie about his address and phone number. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:51 PM Flag
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I agree with you totally. I wonder if these types of "this lie is OK" has always existed or if it's newer. I feel sometimes that we are all so quick to drop our morals for even the slightest gain or advancement and we lose so much more by doing it. It is sad. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:54 PM Flag
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Part of K curriculum is teaching dc to write home address and phone number, which dc will obviously know is not correct. How will you instruct dc to do this, while also trying to teach him that lying is wrong? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 02:02 PM Flag
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never had them do this at our G&T. maybe its a gen ed thing. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 02:30 PM Flag
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np: LOL! Best obnoxious post of the night. Got in so much with so few words. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 02:32 PM Flag
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OR: LOL, you're right. I hope the poster was being sarcastic, but I am afraid that she really wasn't. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 02:37 PM Flag
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I have a way with words, and aimed to cut to the chase. you people are nuts. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 03:25 PM Flag
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don't what school your dc attends, but that was NOT part of the curriculum at our school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 02:36 PM Flag
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It was at PS116 [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 02:58 PM Flag
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Then its a 116 thing (which doesn't surprise me) - I'm in a D2 general ed and they didn't do that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 03:16 PM Flag
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As is said above, then you are not cheating. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:59 PM Flag
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That's not cheating. That's taking advantage of a silly policy. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 05:06 PM Flag
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ITA! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 06:05 AM Flag
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You would like to think this to justify your own actions. You are wrong - it is that simple. You are wrong. It is your attitude that leads everyone into this ugly situation. You can ba as adament as you want and as combative as you like to try to make yourself feel OK, but your post shows that even you know that it is wrong. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:58 PM Flag
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NP and eh, don't judge others if you haven't walked in their shoes. Me, if DC didn't test into G&T I would've sent him to our relatively crappy zoned public for K-2 at least if necessary, but I have an easy kid who would likely do pretty well anywhere, as long as we remained involved. But if I had a kid who really clearly needed a more rarified/customized environment for whatever reason (including minor common special needs) in order to succeed in school, I would move heaven and earth to make that happen, even if I needed to go into debt/move/cheat/lie/sue the DOE or any combination of the above to make that happen.. I would choose the pat [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 04:52 PM Flag
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High moral ground is one very needed thing: MORAL [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 02:05 PM Flag
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If you are taking the high moral ground, there is no reason to lie or cheat. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 05:06 PM Flag
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Believe it or not, I have GRAVE concerns about the lessons I would be treating my child if I told him that the rules about zoning were secondary to my own interests in his education. I will teach my children how to protest rules they find objectionable. I will teach them about openly violating rules that are grossly unfair and accepting the consequences. But sneaking and lying because it is personally beneficial? Not high on my list of lessons for dc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 05:05 PM Flag
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Amen! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 05:08 AM Flag
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You bet we would. And they would too. Desperate times call for desperate measures. And if my dc had been stuck her zoned school I would have tried to figure a way out of it. Our fallback was our local parish school but not everyone had that option. We did get lucky but a df's dc did not. I have encouraged her to be an activist on behalf of her child and I'm hoping something comes through. And if they have to temporarily take a studio in the zone, so be it if that's the only way in. She cares more about her dc than about "scamming." [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 05:07 AM Flag
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No, I don't know it. We are a spiritual family and believe in karma. I honestly believe that if I lied, cheated, or whatever to get dd into school, it would ultimately be a bad experience. You can keep posting stuff like that to try to alleviate your own guilt, but the reality is that you are breaking the law, sinning (if you have ANY religion, this is a sin in ANY religion), and being dishonest. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 06:04 AM Flag
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well, I'm not religious, and my kids are all in their schools legitimately. I hardly think the people whose kids are in another zoned school are "breaking the law." Come on -- the DOE will send their posse out to arrest moms and dads at pickup on the playground? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 12:54 PM Flag
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I understand that there are some really, really unsafe schools. But are there any of those in safe neighborhoods? No. If you live in a safe neighborhood, then your school is likely safe. Maybe not great, but safe. It's mostly about convenience/quality. It's people lying to get into 199 instead of 145, or something like that. True safety isn't at all the issue, as much as people pretend it is to justify their actions. They want status, white kids, and better test scores. All good things, but they don't justify a crime and a lie the way that physical safety would. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 06:09 AM Flag
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Edited to say: I didn't mean to say status and white kids are good things. I had a longer list there and edited it funny. Better test scores and more special programs was what it was supposed to say. I dont' have a white kid so I'm not particularly interested in that demographic, and status is not an interest either. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 06:13 AM Flag
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There are definitely unsafe middle schools and high schools in so-called safe neighborhoods. Washington Irving High School on Irving Place a few blocks from Gramercy Park is an example. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 12:50 PM Flag
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