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07.02.08, 07:50 AM General Topics
124 replies
I am sick of the entitled posters bitching about people scamming a good public school education for their kids. MOST out-of-zone kids in any school are there legitimately whether or not you like it and you have no idea of the circumstances. You should focus on YOUR child not which other children are coming from where. Keep in mind parents who care enough to haul their kids further to a better school are more involved, committed and invested in the school that many parents who live in the zone. The whole complaint reeks of entitlement and exclusion and, yes, racism. You suck. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
General Topics 07.02.08, 07:50 AM Flag
 

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Entitlement and possibly exclusion, yes, but why racism? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 07:55 AM Flag
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as a hispanic mother who knows many ppl who do scam the schools, I say it isn't fair. I know too many ppl from my horrible zone who knew how to fool the system and did..now that their kids went to the better publics, they are the ones bitching about others trying to get variances..it's amazing they dont' remember doing this just a handful of years ago. BTW I'm not a public school parent but went to one. Not all parents who care enough scam the system. Many parents want the best for the kids but follow the rules [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 07:57 AM Flag
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someone trying to get a variance is not scamming the system. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 07:58 AM Flag
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I didn't say they were..I said these ppl who have scammed the system are against variances now. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 07:59 AM Flag
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but those are apples and oranges. "it's amazing they don't remember doing this just a handful of years ago" do you mean getting a variance or scamming the system? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:00 AM Flag
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she said scamming the system. can you not read? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:02 AM Flag
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they scammed the system BUT my point was... they were unhappy with the local options, they lied about addresses when they were turned down for variances. They are now complaining that ppl who are unhappy with local options shouldn't complain, suck it up and do something about it. They say ppl should make the change in their local schools, ect. They didn't..they lied to get their kids into D2 when they lived in D1 with failing schools [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:03 AM Flag
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how did your friends manage to "scam" the system, specifically? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:10 AM Flag
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np. She said they lied about their addresses. What's wrong with your reading comprehension? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:14 AM Flag
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nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. as a con-ed bill with name and address matching the person registering has to be shown at registration, I'm honestly curious how people fake this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:47 AM Flag
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i know two people who rent offices in good zones and use those addresses as their home addresses. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 09:11 AM Flag
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you have a friend w/o kids in the desired zone and as a favor they let you put their coned bill in your name. it's just not that hard and years back they weren't checking htat much. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 12:39 PM Flag
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The DOE got rid of variances. There is no such word in their vocabulary anymmore. It is now called a transfer (and is quite different). OR, it sibling preference. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:07 AM Flag
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yes they did get rid of them but I'm old school..they are still called variances to me..as the DOE will always be the board of ed to me [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:11 AM Flag
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but this is only as of this past school year. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:11 AM Flag
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Variances still exist. You will out an "Exception Request" [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 12:53 PM Flag
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yeah, well maybe you lucked out and were able to go private. until your kid is in a crappy school, don't judge. everyone is operating in a jungle here, trying to eek out the most resources for their dcs. that's life in NYC. one could argue that the people not trying to get around the rules are fools, and their kids will suffer for it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:02 AM Flag
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yes you can seek out the best for your kid but does that mean cheating is the way? I don't see that as a right way. I think if you do cheat, don't complain down the line when others in your situation try to do the same. That was my point about the families I know personally who cheated and now complain when others are trying to work around the rules [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:09 AM Flag
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I wouldn't lie about my address, but I would move to rent a 2nd apt in a good zone. I don't see that as cheating, and would do it if I had to. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:11 AM Flag
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Question, not trying to cause trouble: why go to the trouble of renting a second apartment? Why not just...move? Is it more cost-effective to pay for a studio in the zone you want your child to attend school in? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 10:29 AM Flag
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who are you referring to? I'm the OP and my kid actually has been at a very desirable D2 school -- legitimately. But I don't spend my time wondering about which kids are there scamming the system. I know two families quite who live out of the zone and they are both at our school legally. People make ASSumptions about them all the time though -- why them, but not me? because the color of their skin is in the minority at our school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:10 AM Flag
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so it's ok for you to make assumptions about them (they must be racists!) but not ok for them to make assumptions about those who live out of the zone? must be nice to live in your little hypocritical corner of the world. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 09:20 AM Flag
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it's economics. If I paid 2 million dollars for a 2 bedroom in a good zone, and my kid has 31 kids in her class, I'm gonna be angry about the kid whose parents lied and said he lives with grandma. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 08:59 AM Flag
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ITTTA [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 09:06 AM Flag
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if you paid 2 million for 2 br in a good zone, then send your kid to private school. you are not entitled to any kind of guarantee where your public school is concerned. Look at schools like 89 and 234 -- heaps of million dollar apt and lofts and next year's kindergarten classes will be HUGE -- all with people who legitimately belong in those classrooms. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 10:55 AM Flag
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Alas the REASON there are 31 kids in the class in the GREAT zone is:THERE AREN'T enough spots in private school for all the kids whose parents can afford it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 10:58 AM Flag
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It's because parents all want the same top 15 or so privates, actually. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 03:08 PM Flag
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AND, gramma is paying real estate taxes just like you are, so why can't she benefit from the good school and enroll her grandchild. you don't know -- maybe the child does live with her. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 10:57 AM Flag
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it has nothing to do with real estate taxes [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 11:25 AM Flag
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it has everything to do with real estate taxes. theoretically, funding should be the same to all schools, but funny how schools in economically disadvantaged neighborhoods have lower budgets and how much a rich PTA is able to buy for a school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 04:04 PM Flag
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it's the rich ptas who are funding the schools. again, nothing to do with property taxes. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 07:02 AM Flag
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are you dense? rich ptas come from the parent body, which comes from the zone; richer people, more valuable property, higher taxes. or this way: poor neighborhoods have lower property taxes and poorer ptas. the zones are politically drawn and designed to favor the wealthy. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 07:17 AM Flag
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Wow, you really have no idea what you are talking about. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 03:18 PM Flag
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It's public school; you pay into the whole system NOT buy a seat in a good district/zone.The realtors and school advisors have fleeced so many! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 12:41 PM Flag
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stuff it up your arse. my school is overcrowded and it matters to me if someone is adding to the problem by lying about their address, and yes, i will rat them out. that doesn't make me a racist much as you would like it to be so. i'm also not an idiot. i know who is out of zone legitimately and who isn't. you, my dear, are the one who sucks. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 09:06 AM Flag
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you ratting them out is ludicrous. it's like the tattle tale in preK -- he hit me, blah blah blah. No one is going to get kicked out of a school once they're attending because no matter where the "cheaters" live now makes no difference -- you'd have to prove they lied at the time of registration which is virtually impossible. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 10:53 AM Flag
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No, not impossible at all. The DOE asks for a lease or a contract that shows the date you moved into a place. If you can't come up with something, you're out. They can also ask for your tax return, pay stubs, etc. If any of those show different addresses for the date in question, you're out. It has happened, and will happen more. Don't give people bad advice--they should be aware that there is always a very real chance of being caught. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 11:01 AM Flag
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which department of the DOE handles this? do they have an investigative unit? the DOE can't even place kids in schools through an application process without a zillion mistakes and delays. you're telling me they're going to take on little K student Billy enrolled in the wrong school? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 07:19 AM Flag
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Yes, they have an investigative unit. Like in any bureaucracy, the departments are very separate for each other. They have the manpower to investigate, but can't switch those people over to help with admissions. Different union titles. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 06:20 AM Flag
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That is hilarious. They do not! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 12:41 PM Flag
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not impossible. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 11:26 AM Flag
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I'm legitimately out of zone--lottery. And I resent the illegitimate out-of-zoners. I worked very, very hard, made a lot of difficult decisions, and rearranged my entire life to get dd into that school. So that someone else can crowd her room because they have a friend who will change their coned bill? No way. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 11:02 AM Flag
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i think someone who goes to great lengths to get their child in a good school also worked very hard, made a lot of difficult decisions and rearranged their entire life to get their child into the school as well. in the end, no difference. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 07:21 AM Flag
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Of course there's a difference. There is always a difference between doing something honestly and legally, and cheating and lying. The work level and results might be the same, but the ethics and morals are on opposite ends of the specturm. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 08:27 AM Flag
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it's not about stealing a new dress from the mall. this is about ensuring your child has the best education possible. I think morals are on the side of the parents who do what they have to do. See below, ie, man stealing bread to feed his starving family. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 09:06 AM Flag
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So, if you can't scam your child into a good public, would it be OK to embezzle $100000 to pay for a good private? According to your moral theory, it would be. So please, explain to me why stealing money to pay for private, is different from stealing a zoned spot. As for the bread, starvation=survival. In no way, shape, or form is education the same as survival in a moral dilemma. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 06:22 AM Flag
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Of course that is not okay. Every child in New York City is entitled to a free public education. The reality is that there are gross inequities in the system, giving some children a superior education to others based solely on where they live. That is immoral. Thus the child of poor parents who cannot afford to move (can't sell their apartment because they rent, maybe even with assistance) is stuck getting a subpar education and the poverty cycle continues. I think it's immoral to be so myopic that you can't see what the whole system is doing to the children of NYC. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 12:51 PM Flag
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who cares if most are there legitimately? the ones who aren't don't have a right to be there and they should be kicked out. period. being involved doesn't give you a pass when it comes to cheating, and there are plenty who aren't involved because they have to travel farther to get to school, they try to keep to themselves for fear of giving away their secret, etc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 09:18 AM Flag
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ITA. We left a comfortable, mortgage-free co-op, and are now in an overpriced rental, just so DD could go to a good school. For much less, we could've stayed put and rented a crappy studio while living in our old place, but I wasn't going to lie, let alone expect dd to lie, about where we were living. We will stay until she starts 1st grade, or possibly during K if the DOE has indeed changed that rule. Only then will we think about moving. We went the honest route, it really is our primary (and only) residence. I resent the people who cheat their way through the system. It's true that honesty has a high financial price in this situation, but it's better than the karma you'll bring on yourself if you lie and cheat. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 10:58 AM Flag
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well, you clearly have the financial advantage in this situation. not everyone could make those same choices you have. so someone in your situation without the means to move is just screwed? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 07:22 AM Flag
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Depends on what you mean by "means." We make 1/3 of what most UB people seem to make. We just think that schooling, and honesty, are more important than some of the choices other people make with their money (space, vacations, multiple cel phones, etc.) We are on the lowest end of the financial spectrum but we are sacrificing to the bone. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 08:28 AM Flag
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I completely disagree. You had a "comfortable, mortgage-free co-op." Not many people start with that. I imagine you are using the proceeds from the sale of your comfortable mortgage free co-op to pay your rent now. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 09:08 AM Flag
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Nope, because we want to buy again. It's locked up in CDs and we are working extra hours to make the rent. And no more dinners out, one less phone line, no more Netflix...many, many sacrifices. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:39 AM Flag
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No netflix is a joke, right. You're very silly. How about not enough food, scraping together rent from multiple jobs,NO phone line? Your post is stupid. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 12:46 PM Flag
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this is your choice. you have a ton of savings. you aren't poor - you could take that money and have some niceties. You choose to martyr yourself because I guess you thinking owning is better than renting but in reality you probably should keep renting. Prices ratios favor renting by a lot. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 01:20 PM Flag
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The DOE definitely needs to crack down on the cheaters. In light of the new rule requiring 2 forms of proof of address, I think we should all expect to see that happen in the coming years. This is a GOOD thing. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 11:04 AM Flag
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If they send you mail--the DOE or the school--and it comes back to them, you are screwed. We legitimately moved, but I've still been obsessively collecting and keeping all our documents, just in case there is a question in the future! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 11:08 AM Flag
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and that's exactly why you are not screwed when mail returns to the school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 12:31 PM Flag
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Well, my mail won't get returned because I really live where I say I do. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 06:25 AM Flag
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I know someone who lied to get into a good school last year. The DOE checks were much easier last year than this year, so they just got a few pay stubs changed. In a way I was happy, because it was dd's long-time friend and she was so glad to have her in her class. I didn't rat them out, because I didn't know the facts of how they did it, and anyway I wouldn't do that. None of my business, don't want to get involved. But I never looked at the parents in the same way again. Ultimately I feel they are untrustworthy people, and what else would they cheat/lie about to get what they want? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 11:07 AM Flag
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There is always a cost to cheating, even when you "get away with it." I'm glad that you viewed them in a new light. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 11:09 AM Flag
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It's also uncomfortable. People know we live out of zone now but got in legally, and this family lives near us and often travels with us...I have had to remember on many occasions to alter something I was going to say to another mom. It's a pain. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 11:16 AM Flag
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np: Ditto with friends of ours. They brag about it, which is the worst part - tell us we are idiots for not doing the same. It's definitely affected our friendship. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 12:32 PM Flag
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Totally. It's like having an affair with a married man...if he marries you later, you know he'll probably cheat on you too. If they screwed the system, what will they do to me if they see an advantage somewhere? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 06:26 AM Flag
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I think you're reaching-- doing what's necessary to ensure a quality education for their child does not translate to stealing your purse. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 07:25 AM Flag
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The np: These people HAD their child in a zone with a good school. It wasn't as good, in their minds, as the one with the dual-language program. I think you don't know how many people think good isn't good enough for their kids, they need "top." [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 07:29 AM Flag
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but what is good for one family may not be good for another family. that is YOU making a decision about what's BEST for their children. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 07:34 AM Flag
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No, I'm saying this particular family is cheating for not much gain. And yes, based on test scores and DOE grades, I can make that determination. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 08:01 AM Flag
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i can see the importance of a dual language program trumping those fake DOE grades for a lot of families. You cannot make that determination for that family. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 08:11 AM Flag
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I absolutely can if they are LYING to get it. If you have no cut-off anywhere for morality, then you are the one with the problem. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 08:13 AM Flag
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I totally agree! I can't believe that so many people here approve of lying and cheating. It's scary, and I wonder what kind of kids they are raising. "Honey, if it's important to you, steal it! You deserve it!" [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 08:30 AM Flag
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I also think there are differences in why someone would do this. I cannot judge a mom with no other financial means who lives in, say, East New York who does this the same way I do two professionals living in a brownstone buying a studio for their nanny in the dual-language school zone because it was cheaper than paying for private. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 08:33 AM Flag
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I supposed. But the reality is that with such overcrowding, anyone who takes a spot illegally is reducing resources for the legitimate students...or even denying them a spot at all. Lying is lying, cheating is cheating, and justifying it through semantics is a slippery slope. The DOE does have hardship transfers, that's one of the easiest kinds to get. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 08:38 AM Flag
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Yes, ITTTTA with this. There's a big difference. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 10:42 AM Flag
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Ooops, above was meant for the post about the difference between a low-income single mom doing this vs. professionals w/money doing this in order to save on expenses. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 10:43 AM Flag
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well, how many UBers prepped the hell out of their kids so they could score artificially high on the G&T test for the same goal? Truly disadvantaged children did not have the option -- could not hire tutors, buy the prep kit, know about extra practice tests. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 09:15 AM Flag
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That's working the system, not cheating the system. I work to give my kid every legitimate advantage too, as long as I don't need to break one of the ten commandments to do it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 10:37 AM Flag
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please, i missed the commandment "thou shalt not rent a studio in a better school district to get thine child into a better school." [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 11:54 AM Flag
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"Thou shalt not lie." You can only use your PRIMARY residence, where the child lives, to register. So if you live in that studio from the day of registration through the second day of school, you're not breaking any commandments. If you're not, you're lying. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 06:30 AM Flag
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it is never BEST for a child to lie. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 12:20 PM Flag
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OP: You people are insane. The zones are all smoke and mirrors, you know that right? Politically drawn and they could change next year or the year after and in fact much of D2 probably will be redrawn once the 4-5 new schools are all open in 3 years. The hypocrisy of this board as a whole is hilarious: waa waa waa my kid didn't get a G&T class, now we're stuck with crappy zoned. They scored my kid's test wrong. Blah blah blah, where do I appeal??? Waaaa. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 03:59 PM Flag
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you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. dumping on the people in the good zones trying to keep the cheaters out and then dumping on the people in the bad zones trying to do something about it by whatever means necessary. of course the zones will change. for now your dc must attend the school your zoned for. oh, and i don't know what you've been smoking, but 4-5 schools in 3 years? gl with that. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 02:33 PM Flag
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OP: here is my point. to the poster who picked through her school directory and determined (I suppose via the DOE website, which means entering every.single.address) that 25% are out of zone, and all others who say "it's okay for those here legally, but the CHEATERS should be KICKED OUT." The ratio of "cheaters" to "legally outside the zone" is very small because of all the ways there are to have an address that is not within the zone. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW. If there are 31 kids in a class, perhaps 1 MIGHT be there illegally. And good for that kid, because their parents did what they had to do to ensure a quality education for that child. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.02.08, 04:02 PM Flag
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Right, yay for that kid! They have lying, cheating parents! Lucky child! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 06:27 AM Flag
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like the old moral question: is it okay to steal bread to feed your starving children? most people say, as a last resort, when all other methods have fallen through, yes. you have to feed your kids. Do you then call that person a lying, cheating thief? There is no difference. When pushed to the wall, and their child's education is on the line, and there are OBVIOUS holes in the system, I think it's the parent's moral imperative to get their child a good education by whatever means necessary. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 07:29 AM Flag
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Having to go to a so-so school with lots of minority kids, is in no way shape or form the equivalent of starving. Sorry, but that's an absolutely ridiculous comparison. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 08:29 AM Flag
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i don't think it is. you're saying it's morally correct then for a parent to just accept a subpar school because they can't get a spot legally in another school? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 09:32 AM Flag
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They can move, pay for private, pay for parochial, or work to make that subpar school better. It's all about choices and lying/cheating is the easiest yet most immoral choice. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 10:26 AM Flag
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not everyone has the financial means to move, pay for private, pay for parochial, etc. it is all about choices and parents should be respected for doing what they have to do to improve things for their kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 11:55 AM Flag
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they should be respected for lying? people can always move, it might make their lives harder, longer commute, etc. it is about choices but it is also about compromises - which sometimes we have to make for our children. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 12:34 PM Flag
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first, the economic reality is that not everyone can move any time they want to. second, not everyone can afford to move away from a crappy school zone. to think that everyone can, just like that, is incredibly naive. one thing no one should have to compromise is their children's education. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 12:50 PM Flag
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people can always move - there are lower income towns on li and nj with decent schools - just not so close to the city. people shouldn't have to compromise their children's education, they might have to compromise where they live and please don't say they can't sell their apartment - they should have thought about where they were buying. we could have bought a much nicer place in a not as good zone but choose our kids' education first. people can't have everything in this world! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 01:21 PM Flag
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Sure they can, if they lie, cheat, and steal! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 06:31 AM Flag
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I cannot believe this statement. Do you honestly believe that the only reason people live in bad neighborhoods or bad school zones is because they simply choose to live there? No, people cannot "always move." We're UMC and found it quite difficult financially and logistically to move recently. If we made $100,000 less than we do a year, I don't know how we would have done it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 12:58 PM Flag
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when you are starving, you have no choice. it is not a true comparison to getting into a good school. you can move, maybe not where YOU want to live but someplace with good schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 12:32 PM Flag
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You may defend stealing bread to feed your child BUT 1. don't say it isn't stealing; and 2. what of the baker? What if you stealing that bread is the difference between him being able to stay open (and feed others) or closing shop and now not being able to feed anyone? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 02:05 PM Flag
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Nicely put! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 07:40 AM Flag
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you are pulling these stats our of your butt. in the past, it was very, very easy to cheat your way in and i know MANY people who did it. many more than 1/30. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 06:56 AM Flag
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I think the problem is when someone like us gets denied entrance into a school (we are zoned for 151 and got none of our choices) but people brag about living in BK, District 3 etc. and lying about addresses and they got into the school, therefore bumping us out and we are legally allowed to be there not hem...it just sucks. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 07:05 AM Flag
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so what are you going to do about your child's education? send him or her to a subpar school because the DOE denied your child a spot in a better school? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 07:31 AM Flag
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Yes. If you have any moral character whatsoever. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 06:32 AM Flag
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ITA! My daughter just missed getting the school of our choice in the D3 lottery. They had way fewer spots this year...and I know of at least 2 families who lied before the lottery to get a regular spot. If they hadn't, my daughter would've gotten it legitimately. So they quite literally STOLE it from her. If you disagree, your morals are definitely in need of review. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 08:32 AM Flag
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you are saying that your daughter deserved that spot more, which is not true. all children deserve a quality education, but the reality is that the DOE is completely inequitable and you only care if the inequity goes against your kid. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 09:10 AM Flag
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Anyone who gets a spot honestly deserves it more than anyone who gets it dishonestly. The DOE inequity didn't go against my kid, the lying cheating parents went against my kid. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 10:27 AM Flag
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what do you mean she "just missed it"? so where are you sending your daughter to school? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 12:52 PM Flag
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The last spot was given to the child 2 spots above her on the lottery list. We're going with zoned. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 06:23 AM Flag
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your local zoned school is acceptable to you? why did you try a lottery elsewhere then? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 01:21 PM Flag
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The fact is, everyone who really cares about their child's education uses whatever advantages they have to get what's best for their child, whether money, connections, test prepping, bribery, luck, shrewdness, a friend's address. That is the moral imperative of a parent -- is it admirable for a parent to say, "oh well - we didn't get in to XYZ school, we didn't get a seat in the lottery, so we'll just send our kid to an only adequate or worse failing school because that's just the way the ball bounced?" No. Of course not. It's the people who work the system a different way that like to point fingers and claim the moral high ground, when in fact in the case of the DOE there is no moral high ground. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 09:27 AM Flag
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it reminds me of my kids, all fighting for the same whatever -- spot on the couch, video game, the last apple -- they fight and squabble amongst themselves then when I come make a call (or someone wins the fight) the other two scream and point "IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!!" Of course it's not fair. Nothing in life is. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 09:34 AM Flag
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I'm sure you like to think that way--many New Yorkers do--but just because the administration is messed up, doesn't make it OK to lie and cheat. Don't you tell your kids that two wrongs don't make a right? There is so moral high ground. Morals are morals are morals, and just because the DOE doesn't have them doesn't mean we shouldn't. The more we abuse the system, the more justification they have for it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 10:29 AM Flag
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as long as it's not YOUR kid without a good school option. Plenty of morals to go around then. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 11:57 AM Flag
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It's always easier to be honest and moral when there are no challenges. The true test of a person's character is how they react in the face of adversity. When your morals go bye-bye because the situation is more difficult, then you can see exactly how strong your character is. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 06:24 AM Flag
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This is absurd. Sounds like you're trying to rationalize your own cheating. People like you offend me. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 10:56 AM Flag
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np-ITA. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 10:59 AM Flag
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This is getting sort of like the thread about paying your nanny off the books that came up a few days ago... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 10:34 AM Flag
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i find your claims of moral relativism curious to say the least. buying in a good school zone is not immoral. lying and pretending you did the same is. a for parents should do whatever they can to educate their dcs, would murder be justified if a dc otherwise had to rot in a crap school? i find people like you repulsive. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 01:01 PM Flag
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Hey, dishonesty pays and always has. "The rain it raineth on the just / And also on the unjust fella / But chiefly on the just, because / The unjust steals the just's umbrella." Charles Bowen [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 10:55 AM Flag
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if you really want to talk about entitled posters, it would be those people who lie and cheat to get into a school they aren't zoned for. thinking you deserve something that you don't is what people who are entitled think. - and if you don't live in the zone or have a legal reason to attend that school, you are not entitled to be there. it pisses me off that people lie to get their kids into my zoned school so next year there will be a lottery for K and i may have to move to the suburbs to provide my kids with a quality education. that is what real grown ups do - make choices that they don't love because it is best for their kids. teaching children to lie and cheat is a horrible lesson to give! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.03.08, 12:28 PM Flag
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but the school they gotten their children into will teach them all kinds of great lessons, so it evens out. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.04.08, 12:46 PM Flag
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As a single Mom with a Kindergartener in D1 this topic hits close to home! On the Hunter tour, I know of at least 1 parent who had moved to Brooklyn but still used their old Manhattan address for the apartment that they sublet to someone. (I don't think the child got in so NO Problem.) My child did not get any of my 3 choices in the lottery (I think my child was 40 something on the waitlist for EARTH school!!!!) I sucked it up and looked at my other LEGITIMATE CHOICES! We do what we need to do to look ourselves in the face. Do I have an ear to the ground for a better situation? ABSOLUTELY! Would I lie to get it? NO!!! Nor would I saddle my child with the burden of that lie. My child rides a yellow bus to a disrict 1 school. Did not get all 4's on his report and is doing extremely well socially. The K's teacher is extremely intelligent, receptive to his needs and the class is fairly small (22 kids). Not a dream situation, but do-able. I help with homework and enrichment. I can provide what the school might not be able to. I ran into a parent from his swimming class who volunteered the information that she allowed a friend to use her address (somehow) so that her friends out of district kid could enter the lottery for EARTH School. THAT child got in. MINE did not. Tell me that is good and right. When I expressed my disapproval, the mom stammered. She knew it was wrong, she did it to help a friend and she was ashamed. Will I do anything about this information? NO! I am not going to pick on a kindergartener I don't even know who has the misfortune to have a cheat for a mother. He/she will probably discover the meaning of it all one day and decide for themselves, but you scamming moms. I hope you run into a (possibly) disenfranchised child one day. If you do, give them a hug, buy them a book and I hope you can be happy about your choice to lie and scam. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 10:22 AM Flag
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I can't imagine asking a child to LIE about where they live. Seems like a big psychological burden to me. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 10:35 AM Flag
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RIGHT? Since the PARENT is the primary teacher for any and every child...what does that exactly teach them? I saw a Steven Soderburgh film an number of years back I think it was called "KIng of the Hill" and it was a tremendous burden for that you albeit depression era boy to maintain the secrecy and perpetuate the myth that they still lived within the area his school served. It broke my heart. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 10:39 AM Flag
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(sorry "FOR THAT DEPRESSION ERA BOY...grrr typos when I get passionate about a point!) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 10:41 AM Flag
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You tell 'em. ITA. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 11.15.09, 02:14 PM Flag
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