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06.30.08, 17:36 PM General Topics
48 replies
Regarding Down's post: Recently had a conversation with an OB who is totally pro-choice and speaks out on the subject. He says he often advises patients who are adamently pro-life to do no pre-natal testing. He explained by saying that when faced with the enormity of certain defects, people many times choose to abort and then they feel guilty and like sinners the rest of their lives. He feels that feeling wrong with your God is worse for many of these patients (who do choose to abort). I thought is was very interesting... [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
General Topics 06.30.08, 05:36 PM Flag
 

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not sure i follow. he thinks pro-lifers should do testing to see if they abort upon hearing the reults? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 06.30.08, 05:55 PM Flag
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He thinks that Pro-lifers like everyone else can get overwhelmed with the gravity of a deformity, choose to abort, and then never forgive themselves for what they have done. He says sometimes they also face terrible recriminations form family and church members. Therefore, he advises them to pass on the testing. I thought it just sounded very sensitive and respectful on his part. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 10:18 AM Flag
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so he wants to make the decision for them? And why recriminations? The pro-life people tend to not broadcast having abortions and such. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 12:53 PM Flag
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I think it's probably advice they can take or choose not to take. They ultimately decide what to do ! Your doctor is there to guide your medical decisions and show you options and what her experience has shown to be true. You make the ultimate call as the patient. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:43 PM Flag
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I think advising no pre-natal testing is hugely irresponsible if that's something you would recommend otherwise. I would hope most OB's are not in their patient's business like that. Also, most really religious people would not go to pro-choice OB that speaks out on the subject. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:47 PM Flag
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But I don't think OB's are in the business of recommending prenatal testing. I would say they should let patients know what is available should the patient WANT testing, but if patient asks for their advice, I think that HAS to take patients beliefs and circumstances into consideration. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 02:27 PM Flag
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Seriously ? That's what you got from the post ? He is doing some wacky "check and see" if they will or won't ?! [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 10:22 AM Flag
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This is an interesting viewpoint, although I really do wonder how committed someone is to their belief if they go ahead and terminate anyway. I wonder if sometimes, it's the guilt of not having had enough strength to consider raising a severely disabled child or to "let nature/God/etc." take its course" that is what is later so difficult for people. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 10:38 AM Flag
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Maybe you're right, but even a committed person must really freak out under certain conditions and this man is at a teaching hospital so apparently sees really difficult cases as well as normal cases. I was just impressed since so many people seem to think that if you're pro-choice you feel that everyone else should be too. He has genuine concern for his patients. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 10:50 AM Flag
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i don't doubt what he's seen, but i really wonder what the aftermath for people who choose not to test and end up dealing instead with late term in utero deaths, stillbirths, newborn deaths or severely disabled children to raise. i know many parents who chose not to test bc they though that it was mostly for DS and then were definitely traumatized with the severe conditions that were discovered later and dealing with those repercussions too. i am adamantly pro choice, but i believe that people should make informed decisions - whether it be to continue or to terminate. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 11:17 AM Flag
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I am sure it is a tough way either way. I think he would say that it if in the end it is terrible and tragic, they can turn to their God. If they about, they feel they have no one to turn to as they violated something they feel to be vital to their relationship with God. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 11:19 AM Flag
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^^ meant to write "If they abort" [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 11:20 AM Flag
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you may be right and i simply may not be spiritual enough! i personally think an active choice is better either way then letting it just "happen" but i imagine that that is a matter of faith. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 11:31 AM Flag
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but you - or I - would not be the person he is thinking about. That's exacly why it struck me. We like science and technology. he does too. he is simply saying that if your faith in your God is so great that you have always felt that abortion is murder and there is no justifiable termination, go with that... These - presumably - are people who feel an active choice has already been made by God. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 11:33 AM Flag
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But they don't if they end up having an abortion, do they? They should not be deprived of the facts, nobody should. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:44 PM Flag
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OP Nobody is deprived of facts. He tells clients that testing can lead to lots of really difficult questions and he lets them decide for themselves what to do. He is a doctor, not a dictator. I think he is just sensitive to his patients' stated views and looks out for them if they are pro-choice or pro-life. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:49 PM Flag
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We obviously have very different opinions on what OB's job is. My OB has no clue whether I am pro-choice or pro-life, nor should she. Her job is to provide me with medical advice. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:51 PM Flag
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I have a long erlationship with my OB and he knows a lot about my life... If I were pregnant now (past 40) I assume he would know my feelings about testing and whether or not I would ever terminate a pregnancy too. I don't think it's odd. It's part of your reproductive health. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:54 PM Flag
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Nobody ever really knows what they would do until faced with the decision. You may think you do, but unless you have been there you really don't. So there is no way your OB does. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 02:08 PM Flag
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No, but if my OB knows that I find no excusable rationale for abortion, telling me that testing may present more problems than benefits is fine advice IMHO. Why bother with the testing ? Why put yourself through the months of anguish and second-guessing yourself if you do not need to ? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 02:12 PM Flag
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The point is that you never know whether you'd abort or not until presented with the situation. Many people thought they'd never do it and at the end they did. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 02:22 PM Flag
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He is saying that he is concerned for the faith / mental health of these people. I think he's a good doctor. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 11:36 AM Flag
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Sounds like he should be a psychiatrist or counsellor of some type not an OB. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:50 PM Flag
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Read all the posts on UB. Most of these women want their OB's to be mind-readers, doctors, counselors, child-rearing experts, dieticians, and probably attorneys, dry-cleaners, and accountants too ! [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:52 PM Flag
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That makes no sense. God forgives that stuff too. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 12:54 PM Flag
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I think lots of people think it's the gravest of sins. a fall from grace kind of sin. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:40 PM Flag
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The most religous person I know had no trouble to seek out abortion for his teen daughter when need arose. Lots of them are complete hypocrits too. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:45 PM Flag
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that is the truth. dad is an OB and the pastor of the largest most vocal Southern baptist fire and brimstone church came in (I was working at the desk) to get a termination for his daughter. Saw it with my own eyes. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:51 PM Flag
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really? you know MANY parents who did not test and then had severe conditions that traumatized them? What issues? I simply don't believe you, unless you work in a pediatric specialist's office. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 11:32 AM Flag
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I don't know many, 'only' 3 but they all have extremely hard time with the situation and would have aborted had they known in advance. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 12:55 PM Flag
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due to personal experience, i belong to a group for this, so yes, i know many. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:15 PM Flag
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That is me. I am personally pro life. Then tests came back showing very high probability of Trisomy. I was at a complete loss for what to do. There was no heartbeat when dw went for amnio so we never had to make that decision. My heart goes out to those parents. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 11:48 AM Flag
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i am also sorry for you and what you went through. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 11:49 AM Flag
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just curious, why did you test if you are pro-life ? Just to know what you would be facing in the future ? To prepare should there be a problem ? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 11:50 AM Flag
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You know, it is a fair question but I don't think I have an answer. I mean how often do you do those kinds of tests thinking, "Well, if the worst friggin' thing I have ever heard of happens, what will I do?" And what if the result is even more horrible? We saw dw's OB for the results and when we walked out, my wife turned to me and said, "I was ready for my worse nightmare, she (OB) was going to tell me the baby had Down's. And I could have dealt with that... but this is so much worse." [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 12:49 PM Flag
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i think your situation is the one that most people really aren't considering - not the things that you and db could live with, but the ones that are life-ending. bc DS is the most common and therefore well known and also one that can be mild to moderate for many, I think people forget about the other things. I am sorry for your loss. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:33 PM Flag
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I was numb at first. Then, being a guy, I decided I just needed more information. So I read up on what was wrong (I assumed) with my baby. Holy shit... that was a bad idea. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 02:04 PM Flag
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This is crap. If you know you'd abort for some defects you should do pre-natal testing. Many people regret having the child too. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 12:53 PM Flag
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np: did you not understand the original post? [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 12:57 PM Flag
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I did, and still think OB advising patients not to get prenatal testing in spite of knowing it would make a difference to the family is highly irresponsible. I would livid if my OB did that. OB should not pry religious beliefs of his/her patients to begin with. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:35 PM Flag
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Maybe you read the original post, but you didn't understand it. The OP said that the OB counseled his patients who are adamently pro-life and say that their religious faith and teachings on this are not changeable and do not have a grey area not to test as - in his experience - they sometimes abort, regret it later, and cannot turn to their faith for support as they have violated a key principle. They are then bereft and lost. It says that he is pro-choice, and I assume he regularly advises most patients to test. This is an exception. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:39 PM Flag
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I think that doctor sees in his practice that the "difference to the family" if they do abort is a giant tragedy for them and they have regretted it. I assume you would be counseled differently. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:42 PM Flag
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Sorry but you sound like a religious freak. OB should give sound medical advice, religious people have their other people to go to for spiritual advice. In any case, hopefully few people are moronic enough to listen to such lousy advice. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:48 PM Flag
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God bless you [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:56 PM Flag
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I think there's a difference between saying that one should think long and hard about what they hope to gain from prenatal testing before they opt for it, rather than just telling people to do it and deal with the results later. some people want to be able to terminate, others want time to prepare, but there's definitely a group that is not sure why they would test. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:57 PM Flag
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Thank you. I agree and thought I was in the Twilight Zone reading these responses. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 01:59 PM Flag
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i think though that the OB in the OP was not willy nilly asking people re religious beliefs and tellign them not to test, but rather when prenatal testing is offered, many people have no idea what they want. i think that OB probably says "if if you are adamantly pro-life in your personal beliefs, then what would be the purpose of testing? because if you are faced with the worst case scenarion, you may be tempted in spite of your beliefs to terminate and you may later regret that decision." most people i know DO ask their OBs what to do. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 02:05 PM Flag
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OP Correct ! He is a great guy and I'm getting all upset that people are interpreting this so negatively. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough. [ Reply | More ]
General Topics 07.01.08, 02:10 PM Flag
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