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06.30.08, 17:34 PM New York City
88 replies
Lawyers moms: One of zoned public schools my dd applied to for one of their extra spots will not explain their admissions/wait list criteria. They just keep it vague, no top, bottom, just say there is "a list." Grounds for a lawsuit? How make accountable? [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
New York City 06.30.08, 05:34 PM Flag
 

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For Gods sake! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:36 PM Flag
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ita [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:38 PM Flag
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please what is ITA mean? new here LOL [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:40 PM Flag
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i totally agree [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:47 PM Flag
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tri-ta-ta [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:41 PM Flag
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call the doe and explain the situation. it will go around and around for awhile but eventually you will hear. but i think you just have to deal with the fact that dd is not going to this school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:40 PM Flag
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So, you want to know where your dd is on the wait list and they won't tell you? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:41 PM Flag
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OP: Exactly. I pushed them on it & they couldn't tell me what their criteria was. But it is clear that they take people from certain PreKs and certain neighborhoods/buildings. They operate like a private school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:58 PM Flag
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you're making a lot of assumptions here. there's always something nefarious going on if you aren't one of the chosen. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:17 PM Flag
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Um, yeah if it is a "public" school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:22 PM Flag
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Yes. Anytime you don't get what you want, you should sue. That's how we Lawyer Mom's make our living. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:42 PM Flag
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Lets make it a Class Action - after all this is Big Time damages. Why OP is frustrated and we can't have that! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:44 PM Flag
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And we should fight it all the way to the Supreme Court! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:50 PM Flag
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Certainly not as english teachers! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:51 PM Flag
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Moms. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:11 PM Flag
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if it was a lottery administered by the doe, you need to speak to the doe. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:44 PM Flag
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not a lottery, just up to principal... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:00 PM Flag
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first you should sue the obstetrician who delivered YOU. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 05:52 PM Flag
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OP: Replies here make it pretty clear that you either don't have a really crappy zoned school that you are trying to get out of OR you don't have any expectation that a "public" schools will behave accordingly, with fairness & the uqualiy expected of a public system open to all. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:05 PM Flag
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you can move. I chose to live in a good zone. If I couldnt afford one I wouldnt have kids in nyc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:10 PM Flag
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The point is the zoned school has quite a few open spots for non-zoned kids, but instead of doing a lottery they handpick. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:14 PM Flag
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you should be happy you even have a shot living outside the zone. at most good schools this is not the case. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:16 PM Flag
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I don't believe this in the current era. before it was true. now its centralized. you are wrong. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:17 PM Flag
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what school is this? where is it? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:18 PM Flag
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261, Brooklyn. Great school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:19 PM Flag
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np: yeah, we applied, too. It was pretty obvious that they pick who Carmen likes. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:21 PM Flag
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ooooh! now were naming names! lol! maybe you should try eastern europe with that mentality. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:28 PM Flag
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She's the parent coordinator. It's not like it's a secret. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:31 PM Flag
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Hello. I feel like I know the entire staff at Anderson from the posts here. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:38 PM Flag
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lol! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:49 PM Flag
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She is going to be replaced next year. Too many people complained about "The List." Job became too big for her, didn't use to be 200+ kids applying out of zone. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:37 PM Flag
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so why are they replacing her, if its a systems problem? typical govt agency. blame the little person behind the desk. look like you are taking action. sheesh.. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:50 PM Flag
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i think it is a combo of problems. basically horrible communication all around. next yr will all be centralized. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:55 PM Flag
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here's my carmen quote: "we don't have a g&t program here. zip thinks all the kids are gifted. and anyway, that program ended up just being for one race." [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:03 PM Flag
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np: I think I like carmen. very cute! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:06 PM Flag
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yes, except i'm hispanic and the parent i was with was black. so she was telling us that our kids wouldn't hack it. it was insulting. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:26 PM Flag
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Are you kidding?! Did they offer you a spot? I am assuming, you'd decline, but of course Carmen is just one person. Heard something similar from a black friend of mine. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:31 PM Flag
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no serious. but i am a parent at 261 and heard a rumor there was going to be a g&t. so i asked carmen. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:33 PM Flag
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maybe you have made yourself a PITA, and they are not picking your dc because they don't want a problem parent in the school. getting a spot when you are non zoned is a privelege. they are not likely to offer it to someone who is threatening and crazy. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:19 PM Flag
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OP: Ahhh, yes, that is it. I am threatening & crazy. I see. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:21 PM Flag
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I think calling and demanding to know their criteria, and then threatening a lawsuit is a bit much. I would run from someone like you if I had a few extra spots to dole out. Yes, you are a bit crazy, and certainly threatening. Most of us are just trying to get by. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:23 PM Flag
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Didn't threaten lawsuit to school, duh. Point is DOE does jack, so there is no channel to point out that admissions are not treating applicants equally. If yo looked at my question above, I asked for other ways to create accountability -- any constructive ideas? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:41 PM Flag
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write an email to joel klein requesting that the current system be replaced by a lottery like the one held in D3 or D1. if its only one school, it may be quite easy. put 200 names into a computer and announce the winners around the time when G&T placements come out. a lawsuit seems extreme for this situation. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:52 PM Flag
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OP: Yes, yes, much fairer. And next yr when everything is centralized it will work like a lottery. If they can get this years kinks out (preK....) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:59 PM Flag
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so why even discuss lawsuit then. the system is changing for the better. more fair, more transparency. frankly, non zoned spots will soon go the way of dicretionary spots. there will be no room anymore. lotteries will no longer exist. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:03 PM Flag
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sorry, but i agree with poster above. if you want a guaranteed spot at a good school, move to the zone. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:29 PM Flag
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ding, ding sing! but then that would require Op to retire her love of confrontation and bullying. she would actually have to put her energy into something positive. might be a huge letdown. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:33 PM Flag
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OMG! Just cannot take this public mentality of suing over anything and everything. You people need to make better life decisions, and not put all the responsibility on these govt agencies to take care of you. the doe provides schools. if you don't like the one near you, try moving. move anywhaere, but do what is best for your dc, even if it means moving to atlanta or someplace. you cannot go around suing for everything. it will not help your dc in a timely enough way to make a difference. you need to have a better back up plan than tying yourself up in a lawsuit for the next several years. do something now for the sake of your dc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:14 PM Flag
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OP: it is not about my dc at this point, but it is about making a public system transparent & fair. I would never talk about a lawsuit, but the DOE has no accountability. Read the press -- They don't respond to appeals by politicians or the Public Advocate. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:18 PM Flag
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what are you talking about? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:20 PM Flag
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maybe you should read something other than UB. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:22 PM Flag
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why so insulting? frankly, I feel these calls by politicians on behalf of one dc to get into a school are just BS grandstanding for the politicians own gain. sort of ridiculous, and I don't think the doe should cowtow to politicians calling like entitled, demanding bigshots who are making a scene to get publicity. screw them, I say. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:26 PM Flag
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NP: not about 1 dc -- there were a couple hundred kids waitlisted at 261. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:43 PM Flag
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not sure what the beef is. of course a couple hundred are w/l'd. if too many apply, most will get w/l'd. if the school has discretion, and there is no official lottery, they have to choose somehow. I suppose a lottery makes sense. would save them major hassles. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:56 PM Flag
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Hey my ds got waitlisted at 261 too. Maybe I should sue also. I had figured that there were simply too many kids for too few spot but clearly there's something insidious going on. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.01.08, 05:16 AM Flag
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so you are not even seeking a spot for your dc? just calling them and harassing them about their criteria? I think you need a new hobby. the DOE is overhauling the whole system. if there are a few discretionary spots left, so be it. hardly worth some big lawsuit. this is not communist china. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:22 PM Flag
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hope you are all set for the Fall! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:24 PM Flag
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if I did not like where I ended up, I would figure something out. you obviously have a lot of energy, and should put it to better use helping your dc get into a better school you would be happy with, not harassing the doe. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:27 PM Flag
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OP: my dc has a spot, but there are plenty still scrambling. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:42 PM Flag
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why are you leading the charge? write a letter, get a petition requesting a lottery and be done with it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:54 PM Flag
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NP: the idea of discretionary spots is antithetical to public school [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:53 PM Flag
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maybe each principal should have 5 such spots for kids whose stories move them, or whatever. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 06:58 PM Flag
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I actually think they should do away with all lotteries and spots for kids out of zone. I think this policy allows for people to go elsewhere, and no one then works to make local schools better. DO YOU HEAR THAT JOEL? GET RID OF ALL UNZONED SPOTS!!! Then there will be no fighting about transperency or the poor 200+ w/l'd kids. let them all stay in their zones and make the school better. all zones are so crowded these days that the lotteries will soon be a thing of the past [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:01 PM Flag
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yeah, then schools will be completely segregated socio-economically. Corcoran will be determining zone lines. Forget about diversity. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:06 PM Flag
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oh please! the people rushing to claim non zoned spots are whitey white! probably with $$ to boot! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:41 PM Flag
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sure, but once those zoned lines are enforced next year, it will all be about real estate & if you don't have the $ you can't cross the line. Big effect on transitional nabes. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:49 PM Flag
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that's the way it is everywhere in the country. how would you do it? give everyone a lotto #, and may the best woman win? please, people in wealthy nabes would never stand for that. it has always been about real estate, and it always will be. plus, it would cost way too much to bus kids all over the city, and would have deleterious effects on community and quality of life. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:55 PM Flag
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The school is probably being vague because the DOE has centralized the process but they have not yet received clear instructions from headquarters on how they should handle admissions/WL, signed non-lawyer mom who works for a non-profit watchdog group full or lawyers who take on the DOE when warranted. I don't think the school folks are holding out on you, they just really don't know because the process has been so confusing for them, even more so for them than for us anxious parents. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:01 PM Flag
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thank you. people here are so quick to jump on the anti bandwagon. paranoia prevails at every turn. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:05 PM Flag
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the WL at 261 has been like this for a few years. Preference given to certain Preschools & people who have friends in the school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:24 PM Flag
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that is your paranoia. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:46 PM Flag
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why do you say that? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:50 PM Flag
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you have said yourself that there are too many applicants for too few spaces. they will also have a lottery down the road/ they have to decide somehow at this point. doesn't seem all that nefarious to me, and you seem like a trouble maker, and being sure that particular people are getting something over you just sounds paranoid. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.01.08, 03:02 AM Flag
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OP: if they can't manage a lottery, they could do it first come first serve, but handpicking for a public school is nefarious. For ex., no kids from one PreK get picked, but all of the kids from another do. Maybe if your zoned school was overcrowded and handpicked kids you would get the point? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.01.08, 05:07 AM Flag
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I would figure their criteria include giving preference to one preK. Don't see why that is a problem either. they have to choose somehow, and perhaps that preK is closer or has longstanding ties to the school. whatever. you sound quite crazy [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.01.08, 11:37 AM Flag
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I don't think it is paranoia. I have heard people talk openly about "flagging" applications for the wait list at Midtown West. I think schools had to clean up their lotteries, but the wait list is still open to pressure. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.01.08, 06:17 AM Flag
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np: in addition to their own admissions this year, they got 34 extra Kindergarteners as OSEPO was doing admissions, too. While a number of parents pointed this out to Carmen & OSEPO, neither could get it together to call each other & straighten things out. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:26 PM Flag
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Please ask your organization to provide a better forum for us to discuss this instead of this joke site where no one would take us seriously. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:44 PM Flag
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sounds like they got too many kids, and the w/l is meaningless. will have a lottery next year, so this is all a moot point, and you are wasting everyone's time. np, btw [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:47 PM Flag
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There is a forum at insideschools.org where real discussions about stuff like this goes on. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.01.08, 04:36 AM Flag
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I believe there are changes afoot on the IS site, but as it is now it doesn't encourage quick exchanges like this. I am torn, but I think the discussion would probably be more constructive if it weren't anon. That said, there are juicy -- and important -- things people say here b/c it is anon. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.01.08, 05:27 AM Flag
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Op: Yes, lawsuits seem extreme, but the DOE is a recalcitrant beast. If poitning out the err of their ways were as simple as inviting Joel Klein for coffee we wouldn't have groundbreaking change like Brown v BOE. Clearly not about $, but about getting the ear of the policymakers. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:03 PM Flag
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np then you should study what's wrong w/the doe on a broader scale and make a better lawsuit. this is a small part of a bigger problem. and btw, don't believe the hype about 261. we were there. we left. yes the administration is open to parent involvement, but just over 10% of parents participate. in a school that size it makes a small ripple. and the principal, need 2 assistants, not 1. she's overtaxed. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:29 PM Flag
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OP: ITA, way more probs here; i do think they need to pinpointed individually but perhaps as part of much greater effort. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:34 PM Flag
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but who is the lawsuit serving in the end? middle class parents? all kids? a city like our should be providing a decent education across the board. the best schools are propped up by $$ from the middle class. then we all fight about getting in. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.30.08, 07:37 PM Flag
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It makes the DOE enforce their own policies & it makes them think to respond to parents who need help, i.e. no placement in sibs school, no mid. school asst. DOE doesn't care about its constituents. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.01.08, 05:10 AM Flag
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You can sue. Anyone can sue. It won't get you what you want, however, in this case. If the school is Midtown West, I hear they cleaned up the lottery but there is still some "flagging" that may go on for the wait list. I agree that this is unfair, but here's the question: do you want the spot for your child or do you want justice? If you want the spot, then I think the best course is to be friendly rather than confrontational, make them aware of how much it means to you, to your child, tell them all the things you love about the school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.01.08, 06:15 AM Flag
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i think the vagueness for a wait list in this case is ok, can help people who are not as 'in the know', aggressive, etc. we got an out of zone k spot at that school, i think primarily because of (respectful) persistence. not in either 'certain' pre-k or neighborhoods/buildings [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.08.08, 02:24 AM Flag
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