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06.28.08, 16:13 PM New York City
21 replies
Most research indicates that class size reductions from 28 to 16 kids per class do NOT lead in academic improvement. Test scores have not improved since the 1960s despite dramatic reductions in class size across the country. We could cut school funding by 30% (fire all those lazy paras) and still keep academic performance the same [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
New York City 06.28.08, 04:13 PM Flag
 

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I will still prefer a smaller class size to a large one any day. When I was in school there were 32 kids per class and one teacher. It wasn't fun at all esp when many had to be reminded to behave, have things repeated over and over again, ect. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 04:17 PM Flag
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As a teacher, I can tell the difference. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 06:09 PM Flag
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well, of course is more difficult for you...but if the end product is the same?? does it worth the extra-money to reduce class size so we can make your life a little lazier? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 06:11 PM Flag
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np: Lazier? I see how my DS's teacher spends her time (1st grade class, 25 students). Just keeping that many kids facing the same direction and paying attention takes up a LOT of her time. Good kids too. But 6yos with lots of energy. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 06:13 PM Flag
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The end product is not the same is my point. What the students can actually accomplish is incredibly different as is what you can do with them. (I'm referring to the difference between 32 and 24 actually.) There are many things that are not quantifiable with those tests. I'd also like to see you fire the para for my student with spina bifida who has to be taken to the nurse 2-3 times a day by her to have his urine bag changed. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 06:13 PM Flag
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This responder has obviously never taught. A teacher's life is not lazy, whether she had 18 or 35 students. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 06:19 PM Flag
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or: Yes, and as if the 1960s education system was a model system or that testing effectively measures the progress of most students. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 06:21 PM Flag
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The 1960s were "great" because children who weren't doing well academically dropped out or were chased out. The graduation rate was something like 50%. Now the system is expected to educate every single child. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 06:23 PM Flag
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National tests do NOT show any improvement in reading, math and science during 1965-2007...just a random walk. So all the extra money is wasted (spending per student in inflation adjusted $$ went up from 2,500 to 7,500) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 06:56 PM Flag
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np. I think the previous poster's point was that the old scores were artificially high, so it's an unfair comparison. Not sure if I agree. The graduation rate is still miserably low, and the system still manages to push out perpetually failing dc. The Times ran an article about this a couple of months back. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 07:09 PM Flag
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I think it's the extra helpers in the classroom keeping the achievement steady. If not for the extra hands, the achievement gap would be remarkably higher due to more developmental issues with kids - both clinical (ADHD) as well as worse parenting, kids just aren't disciplined and taught to sit still, be quiet in class when teacher is talking and to respect the authority of adults. Kids are taught at too young an age to be familiar with adults and not respectful. They also have no attention spans thanks to the world of video soundbites that they're exposed to too early and too often. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 07:31 PM Flag
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In the 1960's when I went to school there were 35 kids in my NYC public school class with one teacher and you could hear a pin drop. We wouldn't dare misbehave. Kids today don't have that self-awareness. They need to be told when they're not behaving. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 07:32 PM Flag
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np. Yeah, and kids today are wimps, too. Why, when I was a kid we had to walk 20 miles to school, uphill both ways through raging snow, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Whatever. Kids haven't changed much, if at all, since we were kids. And I highly doubt your rose-colored recollections of your kindergarten days. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.29.08, 07:58 AM Flag
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Kids have changed a lot. They're much bigger brats that talk back to their parents and don't have much respect. And my recollections were of upper elementary school grades, and I walked around the corner to school. Do your kids have actual chores to do in the house like laundry, taking out the garbage or vacuuming, that they don't get allowance for doing? Probably not. I am shocked at how many of my dc's peers have no responsibilities and are still so ungrateful and whiny. They misbehave in public and their parents don't do much of anything. It's pretty appalling how ill-mannered and rude children are - and then I hear parents bemoaning how miserable their little darlings are to them. Ha! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.29.08, 02:37 PM Flag
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Joel Klein? You're on UB too?! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 08:06 PM Flag
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It's lazy para republican mom again! Why do you continue to post these asinine, provocative rants? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.28.08, 09:36 PM Flag
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There have been dramatic reductions in class size? In what country? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.29.08, 12:07 AM Flag
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the US of A. Did you grow up in this country. Class size in the 70s used to be 30+ everywhere [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.29.08, 07:30 AM Flag
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LOL, not in my K - try 15 [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.29.08, 02:48 PM Flag
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Actually, that's a skewed way of looking at the research. What research shows is that learning dramatically decreases once the student to teacher ratio is more than 1:1. Then it's pretty low across the board. Since classes can't be 1:1, obviously for non-academic reasons a smaller class is way better for a child's emotional growth, etc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.29.08, 07:48 AM Flag
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Depends on what research you are looking at, plenty supports small class sizes and even small ability groups in math and reading. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.29.08, 02:47 PM Flag
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