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06.27.08, 07:20 AM Preschool/Kids
100 replies
We would never send to public school if we could afford to do better. Even when publics were better decades ago the difference between the public dcs education and our private nyc one were startling. By the sound of things it is only getting worse. Sad sad situation, our government should invest more in our dcs. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
Preschool/Kids 06.27.08, 07:20 AM Flag
 

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I've said the exact same thing, even though I've been flamed for it on here. My children will never go to public. I actually want to ensure that they grow up educated, and are challenged in school. I know this doesn't happen in most publics from personal expirience [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:21 AM Flag
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how can you have had personal experience with "most publics?" [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:22 AM Flag
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You can't use logic and reason with people who post shit like that. Just read it and move on. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:43 AM Flag
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We are trying to find a way right now to send dc to private. We don't think we are entitled to it mind you, but we know how superior in every way our education was in comparison. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:23 AM Flag
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you are both a bunch of snobs. You can get into ivies from public - almost all my friends at my ivy went to public. My cousin went to public and then Harvard. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:23 AM Flag
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You are misinformed as to what makes up a good education. Getting into Harvard doesn't mean you received a good eduction before you go to college. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:30 AM Flag
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np: I ended up at an Ivy after public school. I was just as "smart" as my peers, and in fact did very well in college, had no trouble keeping up, etc. But I was not as well-educated. It's a gap that never quite went away. I was even more aware of it in graduate school, where most of my classes were small seminars. Someone who has studied Latin, and often Greek, for example is better educated. My public school never offered those options. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:33 AM Flag
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No one is saying public schools are filled with dcs who are not smart, your point is well taken, you may very well have been as smart but without the proper education to foster that what did it really mean in the end [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:38 AM Flag
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Really? You have to study Latin/Greek to be well educated? What else? By the way, I went to a crappy LA public HS and Latin was offered. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:45 AM Flag
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I think ORs point is that public schools offer a mediocre to bad education for dcs who are smart but unfortunately limited by the poor curriculum. OR was a very smart dc but being smart cannot help anyone if you are not being provided with the tools to broadened your education [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:47 AM Flag
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That's where family and peers and drive and interest help. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:52 AM Flag
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OR: Yes, it does help, but it doesn't make up for it. It's hard to have drive when you don't know enough to know what you are missing. My family was not in a position to provide that sort of support. I had two wonderfully smart peers (one became a doctor, the other a lawyer), but they were getting the same poor education that I was getting. We all threw ourselves into every extracurricular activity possible because we were so bored in school. On the surface, we were academic stars, but we were poorly educated. One friend is in LA, one in the middle of the country, I'm in NYC. The one thing we have in common is that we all are sending our dc to private schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:06 AM Flag
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And my experience was obviously different from yours and my friends and I are sending our kids to public schools in LA and NYC. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:08 AM Flag
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I am you, OR. Bad public school in the middle of the country, but threw myself into every activity. Went to Yale, did well, great career, but never really as well educated as my peers. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 02:13 PM Flag
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really I never felt anything was missing. I went public to ivy and to grad school as well. It's unfortunately of your own making [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:49 AM Flag
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I went to Harvard from a public school, and I felt that others knew more about European history, but my math and science education seemed perfectly fine. I was able, for instance, to pass the required rudimentary test of statistics and computer programming on the first try, mostly becaue I had gone to school in the Bay Area and had taken years of computer programming, while my roommate, from Atlanta's most famous private school, was at sea. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 09:06 AM Flag
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NP: That's what I think and what I try to say on limited-view threads like this - there is no one definition of what "well-educated" means. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 10:01 AM Flag
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Private school is less important for really bright, intrinsically motivated kids. It makes the real difference for mediocre students, who will be pushed past their natural comfort level. Equally, when it comes to college admissions, they do the best job for kids with spotting records or lower scores. At my Ivy the gap between my boarding school friends and the public school educated students closed by the end of the first year. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 09:50 AM Flag
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Do you have any friends who send dc to public? I am sending dc to private for my own reasons, but don't feel superior about it. People do what they have to and what they believe in. I do think that many publics are academically strong, we wanted a school that was more than that and that took the whole child into account. Many of my friends chose public and their dc are do well. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:25 AM Flag
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^^^^doing [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:26 AM Flag
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Yes, we do, of course we do. We are not feeling superior or impressed with ourselves, I am saying that public education is a sad state and that is a real shame. Pound for pound you just cannot compare the education you receive from a TT private with any public school, and yes I am including so called selective ones [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:33 AM Flag
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What do you base this grand statement on? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:49 AM Flag
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How about being aware at a very young age that my public counterparts in both the city as well as the suburbs were leagues behind us in all subjects, that their knowledge in anything but pop culture was limited at best. That they didn't follow politics or read the newspaper or read novels for pleasure, I could go on. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:53 AM Flag
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NP: OK. Now you are being totally absurd. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:02 AM Flag
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You are only being defensive about your own education, which is something no one can help but rest assured your private counterparts noticed the gap. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:04 AM Flag
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np: i wnet to non-nyc public schools. i followed politics, learned history and art history and music theory (and math and science). you just can't generalize this broadly. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 02:20 PM Flag
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yawn. aren't we sick of this fight yet? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:26 AM Flag
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How old are your dc's? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:27 AM Flag
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1 and 3.5 [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:38 AM Flag
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hope your kids don't get in and you'll have to move [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:29 AM Flag
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Well they will, sorry. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:31 AM Flag
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they will get shut out [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:46 AM Flag
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Not likely as we are double legacies with v. smart dcs. But good luck to you! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:05 AM Flag
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how old is your oldest now? 3? You are going to be in for a surprise, my dear. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:08 AM Flag
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I am sure you hope so, but this thread is not about your bitter insecurities. Dear. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:09 AM Flag
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and I know you are just here to stir the pot. In reality you are just a bitter, fat, poor women sitting at a library computer somewhere in East New York. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:11 AM Flag
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Oh wouldn't you like that. Shame for you it is not the case. Let's stop this here, it is not benefitting anyone or addressing the topic. if you want to make digs at anonymous people to offset your insecurities find another thread and someone else for bait. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:13 AM Flag
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I think you started the whole thing, didn't you? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:14 AM Flag
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Not at all. Look above. Really, lets end this particular thread, have a great day, [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:14 AM Flag
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toodles [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:14 AM Flag
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I sent my dc to a private UES kindergarten, not tt, and it stunk. We moved to Forest Hills and she is getting a far superior education at the public elementary. Class size not bad either. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:30 AM Flag
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No one, when they discuss private vs public, is ever talking about or comparing Ks [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:31 AM Flag
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What grade is she in now? What school? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 09:10 AM Flag
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And I think it is collassally irresponsible to spend $30k+ a year for 13 years, *before* college, unless your family is already able to save enough money for retirement and college. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:35 AM Flag
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Nothing is more important than your child's education. Waiting until they are 18 to provide one is irresponsible [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:37 AM Flag
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And I would argue that you need to take a much more broad, holistic view of what education is. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:38 AM Flag
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ITA, which is why we are doing private. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:39 AM Flag
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What exactly does that mean? We need to make sure our dc is limited by a system that doesn't work, that we should accept and expose our dc to an education administered by civil servants? That our dc should be exposed to a classroom where the learning is leveled with the lowest common denominator making sure dc is never challenged? This 'holistic and broad' argument is complete fluff devised to make people feel better about bad choices [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:40 AM Flag
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NP: If that is your definition, then selective public schools provide the same kind of homogenous classroom. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:54 AM Flag
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Not the same curriculum or teachers. yes, even Hunter dcs were just not up to speed. Now everyone will flame but it is what it is. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:11 AM Flag
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I disagree. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:38 AM Flag
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Putting yourself in a position where your kids will have to fund your retirement -- that is irresponsible [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:40 AM Flag
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No one will be funding our retirement and have you ever heard of FA? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:41 AM Flag
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I was addressing the hypothetical -- A family that makes too much for FA, but finds that the cost of private will force them to cut their budget to the bone, and severely limit their ability to save for retirement. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:45 AM Flag
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If you make too much for FA - you can still be stocking 15% into your 401K - you just won't be able to take vacation - the FA limit is pretty high in NYC [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:47 AM Flag
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And that gets back to my "holistic and broad" view. I think missing family vacations is a pretty big deal, frankly. Not for me, but for my dcs to get exposure to the world beyond NYC. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 05:00 PM Flag
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not everyone gets financial aid - the competition is fierce and I would never rely on it. Make sure you are in a good public district just in case [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:48 AM Flag
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That is true, only two families applying out from our PreK who needed FA this year got it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:49 AM Flag
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When a student graduates HS, what is the difference between a "well educated" one and one who isn't? How do you determine this? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:48 AM Flag
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If you lived in Greenwich, CT, Scarsdale, NY, Sands Point, NY, or Upper Saddle River, NJ would you also send you kids to a private school? Most of the massively wealthy people in these areas do not. So this idea that if you have money you ALWAYS chose (or should chose) private school must only be a natural law on this little island...Or maybe it is not a law at all and everyone makes their own calculus according to a variety of issues such as education, entitlement, peer-pressure, personal experience, etc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:49 AM Flag
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The public schools there are also very limited in comparison to TT NYC privates. The privates around those areas may be slightly better than the public offerings but nothing compared to NYC privates. Sorry. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:51 AM Flag
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1) all of these areas are in commuting distance to NYC privates especially via the limo or helicopters of the super-rich, 2) and more importantly, economics would have dictated the creation of Daltons, HMs, Trinitys, etc. in all of these locations if there was a market for them. In fact, the reduced cost of creation (due to real estate and construction costs) and operations (due to extra NYC expenses) would dictate that a TT pvt school would make more money in Saddle River , etc. than NYC so that is where they likely would have appeared first and certainly be more abundant. But strangely, they are not. Maybe those basic economic principles just do not apply either... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:02 AM Flag
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Forget it. She's a snob troll. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:53 AM Flag
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Because I am stating obvious facts? I think you are defensive [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:54 AM Flag
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You have stated no facts. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:55 AM Flag
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np: you may not like OPs attitude but look at comparisons in US News on rankings, look at exmissions over 50% of each TT class to these HYP schools you all covet, high scores all around, the fact that eachof the TT finish stats HS requirements by 10th grade and everything from that point on is AP. Come on don't be blind because you don't like what OP is saying [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:16 AM Flag
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OP: exactly [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:19 AM Flag
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College exmissions mean little unless you're comparing within private schools. Besides, your own "facts" aren't right. Check the percentage going to HYP from each school. As for "high scores", if you mean SAT, the public schools do as well if not better. And I don't even know what you mean by the HS requirements by 10th grade & AP statement. It doesn't make sense. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:22 AM Flag
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The TT private finish state requirements for HS diploma by 10th grade the rest of their classes in every subject are college level. But FWIW, I think we all need to jump off of this thread and address 'baby calling cards'! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:25 AM Flag
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If that's true, then so do the selective public high schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:26 AM Flag
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Then why they still send half of their kids into mediocre colleges? They can't all be that fabulous. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 05:19 PM Flag
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Are you guys really that dumb? Kids that go to private schools are self-selecting. Of course those are the ones that come from the right environment to take education really seriously. And there are plenty of children in public education also. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:29 AM Flag
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This is not at all what the OP said. Certainly there is a group of a FEW truly TT privates that have exceptional teaching and students. One of the results is a high acceptance rate at Ivies (BTW, 50% HYP is impossible). But there is also a group of selective public HS that have great teaching and students. And (surprise) they also have amazing Ivy acceptance rates, high SATs, etc. The OP point was that NO ONE should send their kids to private (in fact, any private) if they have the money. This is simply not validated by any facts and most people believe it is wrong. If everyone can get into Dalton, sure, then maybe "everyone" should send their kid there, but that is not reality. Also, if everyone can get into Hunter than the same applies. Kids can find a great education in many places - privates, G&T, publics, charters - and unfortunately they can find a lousy education in those same places. Blanket statements do not apply. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:44 AM Flag
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^^^ meant NO ONE should send their kids to PUBLIC (in fact, any PUBLIC) if they have the money. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:46 AM Flag
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what facts? I have not seen one fact in this entire thread. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:10 AM Flag
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Well, there is OP's anecdote about how everyone who went to public school is a People Magazine-reading idiot. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:13 AM Flag
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oh, I missed that fact. Shame on me. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:14 AM Flag
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you probably went to public school. -np [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 02:19 PM Flag
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So true.... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:16 AM Flag
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Hey, what's wrong with a little "People" magazine once in a while, signed Ivy-educated physician. Oh wait, I went to public school, so I guess I don't know any better. Silly me! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:29 AM Flag
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At least you read, despite your public school education! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:31 AM Flag
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That and the NY Post, and of course, I never miss a season of American Idol! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:57 AM Flag
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Most of the wealthy in Greenwich DO send their kids to private schools also in many, many Westchester communities. All NJ publics stink, even in the best communities. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 04:27 PM Flag
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How about some real stats - In New Caanan, CT 13.1% of kids go to private school which is only a bit above the CT state 10% and almost right on the Nat'l 12% [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 07:19 PM Flag
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I went to all public schools and public university in the Midwest and I have a great job in publishing. And to be honest, I find that a lot of Ivy-educated New York women are not as well read or intelligent as I am. They haven't read deeply in the classics; they don't know European history at all; the only thing they know about the Met is the rooftop bar. This is really about social climbing much more than true intellectual achievement. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:40 AM Flag
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However, how does one qualify as being better educated? I would say that the qualifications you are stating above may be impressive, but I may be more impressed by a person who is educated more multi-culturally, e.g. familiar with history and literature on Europe, but also of Asia, South America, Africa. Also, what about the math and sciences? I often speak to otherwise highly intelligent and well-read people who are total idiots when discussing anything remotedly health or science-related, and do not see anything wrong with that. My point is that there are many ways to be well-educated and appear well-educated, but there are some which just have more snob appeal in certain circles, particularly on UB. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:52 AM Flag
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^^ Good point. But the women I am talking about are liberal arts majors from the Ivy League schools. There is no doubt that a well educated scientist or mathematician is on a superior level. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 09:04 AM Flag
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np: while i find OP odious, and i also attende public school--even my shitty public school was much better and safer than most of the public schools available to NYers at this point. i would be fine with our dcs attending our zoned elementary school, but i'm not sure what we'd do for middle school. but if one CAN afford (and get into) a good private, why not do it? we can debate supporting the public school system, and acting in the interest of the greater good but, personally, i'm not interested in better the public school system for future generations at the expense of my own dcs' educational opportunities. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 04:33 PM Flag
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^^^wow, sorry about typos--maybe i shouldn't have had that second glass of wine... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 04:34 PM Flag
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ITA. At my ivy league school, the private school NY students just didn't stand out any more than anyone else. They just didn't. Not against those coming from crappy private schools in the west coast, or those coming from crappy schools abroad, or, yes, public schools in New York. And I could say the same about the my grad school experience, and my entire professional experience. Private school provides a brand and a social circle. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 05:03 PM Flag
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FWIW, the NYC publics are much better than they were decades ago. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:45 AM Flag
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I would never send my kids to private no matter how much money we had. The freaky parents, bad values, and social irresponsibility of sequestering the richest kids away from the unwashed masses grosses me out [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:46 AM Flag
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^^^ "unwashed masses" in quotes of course. the reality is people in publics are so much cooler and nicer and more interesting! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:47 AM Flag
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I'm telling you, this is all about parents longing for Ivy League fast track so that they can feel as if they have accomplished something with their shallow lives. PURE UNADULTERATED SOCIAL CLIMBING 101. Do you want to have to spend time with wives of hedge fund managers, gold diggers from hell, year after agonizing year? The thought makes me sick. The publics are where the artists, the true progressives and liberals, and the interesting thinkers are. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:53 AM Flag
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I beg to differ. I went to a now "TT" private in NYC and am a writer. I was very encouraged in the arts (though it may be different now). It depends most of all on who you are. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 09:02 AM Flag
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ITA. And I work with those freaks all day long - (finance) - by and large its not where the creative interesting thinkers are, and its not where I want my kids going for playdates. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 05:07 PM Flag
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np: ittta. I went to private school until high school, then my family moved and I started at the local public HS. It was supposed to be temporary and I would start in private HS the next fall, but I was sooo much happier to be away from all the wealthy snobs and their neurotic parents. I loved public school, and got a great education. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 02:09 PM Flag
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An honest and serious issue that will likely be flamed. Of course the above poster does not mean every parent is freaky, teaches poor values, etc., but one wonders about the percentage at pvt that do. Did anyone read the front page story in New York magazine about HM recently and not seriously wonder about the type of values and moral responsibility being fostered there? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 08:50 AM Flag
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Hmm. Studies indicate that after controlling for parental education and income, the benefits of private education are small. They also indicate that most benefits of private education accrue to low income children. Most of the freshman at Harvard are from public schools, as are most Intel Science Contest semifinalists. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 09:01 AM Flag
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Specifically 55% of Princeton's class are from public (11% parochial, 34% private), but since private schools make up 12% of all students they do have higher than their per capita rate. But they are selective schools, so you would expect that. Harvard numbers are likely similar. Actually 10 out of 10 Intel award winners this year (and almost every year) are from public schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 10:44 AM Flag
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