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06.26.08, 07:25 AM General Topics
62 replies
the Supreme Court has ruled that individuals have the right to own guns for hunting and self-defense. That's great, just great. Just what this country needed. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
General Topics 06.26.08, 07:25 AM Flag
 

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what part of the second amendment don't you understand? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:26 AM Flag
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what about "well-regulated militia" do you not understand? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:30 AM Flag
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A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. So what part of "the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" do you not understand? It does not say that those people must be in the militia. At the time it was understood that the state needed to be able to rise quickly there was a problem (i.e. threat of attack from native americans, the british, etc.) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:35 AM Flag
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yes, exactly -- militia, necessary to the security of a free State. This is not about having guns around for people to, say, hunt deer, or other people, with. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:38 AM Flag
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If the people were allowed an unfettered right to keep and bear arms, the first two phrases would be superfluous -- clearly if they are to be given meaning, there must be some limitation on that right. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:40 AM Flag
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Then what is the purposes of the statement "well-regulated" or even the point of including the militia at all? If they intended a free-for-all with guns, those phrases wouldn't be there. You can't pick and choose which phrase counts and which one doesn't. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:40 AM Flag
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Do you really believe guns and their ownership are unregulated? Have you ever tried getting a concealed carry permit in NYC? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:49 AM Flag
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I'm a former AAG, unless you are a diamond broker, carrying around large quantities of uncut stones, it's damn near impossible (which is the way it should be). But I suspect the current Supreme Court thinks that's wrong (although I haven't read the decision yet). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:52 AM Flag
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I believe NYC should have a Vermont-style CCW law. An armed society is a polite society. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:56 AM Flag
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Them move to Vermont or Utopia or somewhere else. Practical reality (and statistics) say something else. An armed society is substantially more dangerous. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:58 AM Flag
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every state with access to CCW has seen crime drop. Period. Vermont has the 49th lowest rate of crime and the 47th lowest murder rate. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:11 AM Flag
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you can't possibly think it appropriate to compare the state of Vermont with urban D.C., which is who brought the suit [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:45 AM Flag
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So has NYC where getting a CCW right now is harder than getting heroin. So what? (I'm a pro-gun advocate by the way.) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:47 AM Flag
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what's a ccw? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:52 AM Flag
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I don't know what it stands for, but I think it is a permit to carry a concealed weapon. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:01 AM Flag
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carrying concealed weapon permit. It means you can legally have a handgun on your person, in public. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:24 AM Flag
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check the violent crime rates in Texas and get back to me on that... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:11 AM Flag
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Are you counting all the Texans that Texas killed or just the Texans that Texans killed? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:22 AM Flag
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an armed society is a polite society ? really ? It seems sort of not polite in the middle east. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:44 AM Flag
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seriously, I was just thinking that [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:46 AM Flag
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some people just love to throw out pithy little phrases they read on a bumper sticker but never thought through. that was one of them ! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:47 AM Flag
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they have the "armed" part down. It's the "society" part they need to work on. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 12:49 PM Flag
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Do you honestly think we don't have enough laws regulating the possession of firearms? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:36 AM Flag
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I honestly don't. I can't think of a single reason why a person who is not in law enforcement should be able to own an automatic weapon of any sort and especially not an automatic handgun. none. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:46 AM Flag
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ITTTTTTA [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:47 AM Flag
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I'm pretty sure you can't go out an buy an automatic handgun. The DC law forbid all guns, every single one that was bought after 1972 (I think that was the year at least). Yes you could get an exemption, but in reality, they only approved a handful of exceptions, like one or two a year. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:52 AM Flag
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congress let the ban on automatic weapons expire in 2004. and that was all automatic weapons, including ak-47 and uzis. gonna kill a lot of deer with those [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:03 AM Flag
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that is sport ! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:10 AM Flag
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How about because shooting is fun? Why do you have to understand why I enjoy taget shooting in order for me to be allowed to do it? I can't imagine why anyone would want to scrapbook for a hobby, or knit, or have a boat or race cars. Does that mean those activities should be banned? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 11:16 AM Flag
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you don't have much of an imagination, then. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 12:49 PM Flag
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Seriously. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:32 AM Flag
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary tothe security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. It's pretty clear to me what the intent is, even if 5 members (some of which were appointed by that constitutional scholar, George W Bush) of the Supreme Court disagree with me. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:37 AM Flag
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I think that you are ignoring the situation at the time it was written. Militia's formed quickly to deal with local issues, the people needed to have guns so that they could respond. Congress was afraid of a dictator taking away a persecuted group of people's guns. Whether this applies in our life today is debatable, but that was their intent. If we want to change the constitution, I up for that... But we liberals (and yes I am one), scream bloody murder for all the constitutional infringements that our beloved president (snark) has instituted over the last 8 years [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:44 AM Flag
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but most people didn't have guns at that time. they were expensive and only the extremely wealthy could afford them. they certainly weren't everywhere. the drafters of the Constitution may have been afraid of the Brits coming back (a fear that was warranted, given what happened in 1812), but militias with armories was their preferred solution, not individual farmers with pitchforks. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:50 AM Flag
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np: This makes no sense. If nobody had guns, why is the second amendment necessary? Why isn't it a the "right to keep and bear pitchforks"? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:00 AM Flag
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that's just not true. It was not just the very wealthy. People living close to the frontier did too. And the second amendment was enacted because the British had a history of taking away guns of persecuted people. They tried to take them away from the Americans that were separatists. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:01 AM Flag
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np: I remember an article fairly recently about a researcher who went through wills and found that gun ownership was much higher among the folk of the post revolutionary period than was previously thought to have been true. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:56 AM Flag
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THIS. IS. NOT. TRUE. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:12 AM Flag
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That's our Supreme Court at work! Hmmm - 5 to 4 vote - let me guess who voted on which side... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:42 AM Flag
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I'm cool with that. I would argue that I should have a right to own a gun because shooting is fun, too. That said, I'm also fine with all kinds of controls to make the purchase of guns harder BUT if a law abiding American wants to own a gun, I have no problem with it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:52 AM Flag
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I agree with that. But right now we have several judges (Scalia, Roberts) who say they are literalists - that only the exact words of the Constitution matter. Not how they could be construed to apply in today's world. They use this to try to take away other rights, so it's total hypocrisy that they ruled like this today. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:41 AM Flag
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the Supreme court also ruled again dealth penalty for child rape yesterday. also 5-4. pretty liberal ruling for a conservative court. How could they veto the 2nd amendment? you don't HAVE to bear arms. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:02 AM Flag
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no but the asshole who thinks I just took his parking spot and just got fired may be bearing one and that's a problem for me ! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:50 AM Flag
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What's wrong with hunting? And trust me, if someone broke into your house you would shoot him/her to protect your DC [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:59 AM Flag
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Hunting's the best source of free range meat available (this from a vegetarian of 2 decades) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:02 AM Flag
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This assumes the person hunting knows what they are doing. Granted, living your life in a box so you can be somebody's saltimbooco(sp?) sucks but so does growing up in the forest just to get belly shot by some yahoo from Staten Island who thinks the idea of deer hunting is cool. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:11 AM Flag
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I don't know many gun people that don't know how to shoot... If I had to decide between growing up in a box living in my own feces and being outside, even if it meant a fairly painful death, I would definitely choose living outside. Anyway, most animals do not have peaceful quick deaths in the wild. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:18 AM Flag
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I'll give you that. But the people I'm talking about are the non-gun people who go hunting with a friend/BIL/etc. You can always pick them out. They are wearing brand new hiking boots, electronic socks and cologne. Always cologne! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:21 AM Flag
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luckily the cologne drives away most of the animals... Sigh, it's certainly not perfect, but if we are comparing it to the sad state of our meat industry, it is far more humane for animals and people (the workers in slaughterhouses are usually illegal and have few osha protections). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:24 AM Flag
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Oh, don't get me wrong. I am not suggesting the meat industry is fine. The last eight years has not done this nation proud in the way we treat an sentient beings with an annual household income of less than $500,000. I just have a personal and special disdain for people who treat hunting like the next golf or mountain biking. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:38 AM Flag
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Having lived in places where the deer were overpopulated, I'm all for it if it is responsible. Most hunters I know are very responsible, and I don't have any respect for meat eaters who get freaked out by the idea of killing an anima. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:47 AM Flag
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np: ITA... BUT I do know a lot of hunters who are in it only for the heads mounted on their wall and have a reason to get away from responsible adult life to party with their "boys." [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:52 AM Flag
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do they also eat the meat or is it just for the head? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:54 AM Flag
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They sell the meat to the place that prepares the head for them, so at least it's not going to waste. But they are not hunting for the meat, it's merely sport (with drinking being part of the sport, so I worry about their safety). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:00 AM Flag
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np: In this regard the game fishing industry is worse. Most of those fish are not eaten. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 12:36 PM Flag
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I didn't read the entire opinion of the court, but basically what they said was it was not the role of the court to pronounce the 2nd amendment extinct. So it's up to the legislative branch, and with the power of the NRA...good luck with that. I think the only hope is to chip away at it on a local and state level [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:57 AM Flag
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this ruling is saying that you can't chip away at local and state level, because of 2nd amendment. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:03 AM Flag
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np: That's what I thought too - that the NRA could use this to fight states that have tougher licensing laws, waiting periods, etc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:04 AM Flag
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They didn't get into that, and I doubt that they will. Honestly, if they over turn that, there could be a move to change the second amendment. Where DC got into trouble is that it was a ban, not licensing or wait period. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:08 AM Flag
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Okay, I didn't read about it. Was listening to CNN, which of course means that you get absolutely no real information - only hysterical people from both ends of spectrum. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:09 AM Flag
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how true [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:22 AM Flag
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well, I guess that makes sense, since that's what D.C. was trying to do. crap [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:04 AM Flag
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