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06.26.08, 04:51 AM NY Schools
61 replies
LL test scores are AMAZING. I know that test scores are certainly not only measure, but they are one decent one. Considering Gen Ed test students LL's Mean scaled score is #1 in ELA3, #1 in ELA4, #3 in ELA5, #5 in Math3, #1 in Math4, #2 in Math5 in the WHOLE state (over 3400 schools). Also steady and significant improvements over the last 3 years. Finally compared to A and N across 18 categories (% 3&4, % 4, and Mean over 6 tests), LL outscores A on 6 measures, A outscores LL on 2 / LL outscores N on 11 measures N outscores LL on 0. We are excited about LL. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
NY Schools 06.26.08, 04:51 AM Flag
 

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what bothers me about these yearly test is the thought of the schools putting so much emphasis on getting the kids ready for the test. My concern is what percentage of the things taught for the test is being retained compared to % of it lost just for test prep and test taking. I worry the kids won't retain a lot [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 04:54 AM Flag
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From what I know about the standardized tests, they are reasonable (if modest) in their expectations. I think what kids learn in preparation for the tests are good skills and include basic knowledge. I am concerned for OP's focus on the test results and comparisons, however. This is crazy stuff and major league competitive! I worry that my child loves to read and always has a book (she's 12--she does) and has good math skills (we're working on this still). I am astonished at postings from parents here. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 05:06 AM Flag
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Teaching to a test is certainly an issue, but it is hard to come up with any other way than testing to determine knowledge/skill growth, compare teaching methods, show progress (or lack of), etc. I expect (hope) that the tests focus on those skills that are part of the curriculum not visa-versa. Having looked at the actual tests, which are available online, they seem to cover all the basic skills in Math and Reading. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 05:06 AM Flag
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Check out the tests - http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/3-8/ela-sample/home.htm. These certainly cover the basic skills we would all expect our 3, 4, 5th graders to be learning. Looks like a good assessment in at least Math and English. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 06:40 AM Flag
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There is so much more to elementary school education than test scores. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 05:22 AM Flag
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Of course, but it is certainly a factor. One thing I really love about public schools is the public disclosure and accountability. Check out all the reports about everything you can imagine that is done every 1-2 years - http://schools.nyc.gov/SchoolPortals/02/M077/AboutUs/Statistics/default.htm. Pretty good transparency. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 06:58 AM Flag
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don't you think this is creepy? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:06 AM Flag
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NP: Creepy? In what way? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:26 AM Flag
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the attempt to express every little thing in a statistical way. there is more to school than numbers. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:40 AM Flag
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I think it's because stats are objective. Everything else is subjective. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:44 AM Flag
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are you really saying that statistics are objective? Because once you have the numbers you still have to interpret them and boom - it is all subjective again. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:14 AM Flag
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How can you compare LL to 3400 schools, those are all catchment schools with mostly or only gen ed students. Any school that gets to cherry pick its students will be better than one that has to educate everyone living in the catchment. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 06:33 AM Flag
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Fair point, but there are over 100 selection schools in NY among those 3400+ and LL was ahead of them all too. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 06:38 AM Flag
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No way there are over 100 selective only schools in NYC. Almost all also have significant number of gen ed students and results for the schools are combining the two. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 06:43 AM Flag
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Not NYC, New York State. There are a bunch in upstate districts that report separately, few in downstate, except NYC. But you are right that many gifted programs are blended, and the 100+ cite I found actually included middle and high schools. Most of the 3400 schools have a gifted program. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 06:55 AM Flag
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sigh. if it had been ANY closer to us, we would have ranked it higher (and we would have gotten in). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 06:59 AM Flag
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oh, no. We are new LL parents and I am sorry to see that I still have to deal with people like you. As somebody pointed out above: major league competitve! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:05 AM Flag
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You are right, but this whole process from Pvt to City G&T to District G&T has been one huge competition. Parents and kids driven nuts, therapists bills sky-rocket, friendships end. There must be a better way. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:25 AM Flag
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There is nobody else to blame but the parents if this is spinning out of control. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:39 AM Flag
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NP: A little unfair. We had to endure 3 tests, nail-biting waits for scores, pvt school apps that looked like college apps, enumerable pvt schools interviews/play groups, PSD meetings and calls, 2nd round hunter testing with child psychologists watching, more waiting for accepts/declines, follow ups and almost groveling for pvt wait lists, ranking for citywide and district G&T and finally G&T "lottery" results. For those who chose (and I agree it is a choice) to look at pvt, hunter and G&T it is hard to categorize the process anything but a very competitive one. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:26 AM Flag
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Where did you end up, NP? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:32 AM Flag
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Lower Lab with 98s on ERB/SB/OLSAT - consistency! Talked with one of the PTA presidents a lot and really got to know the school. We are happy, but a little resigned. Had fingers crossed for hunter or anderson for public and dalton or ethical for private (wait-listed at both). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:54 AM Flag
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I hope you are less competitive in real life. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:19 AM Flag
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your 98 SB/OLSAT dc will feel too much pressure in LL b/c most of others are 99. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 11:30 AM Flag
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*yawn* yeah, those 99ers. You have to keep an eye on those. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 11:37 AM Flag
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Yeah, they're the ones taking bets on the speed-chess games during recess. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.21.09, 09:54 PM Flag
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Lest anyone applicant parent take that all seriously, don't. I was being facetious. Kids are normal, interested in cookies and ice-cream, like any other kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.21.09, 10:06 PM Flag
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yes, but it was your choice to go through that. We only did the Hunter and public G&T and both were very straight forward processes. Sure, there was waiting involved but it never turned us into competitors that go all berserk about numbers, scores, percentiles, etc. etc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:18 AM Flag
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Exactly right. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.21.09, 09:57 PM Flag
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Where did you get LL's mean scaled score compared with the other schools? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:08 AM Flag
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All NY - http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/irts/press-release/20080623/home.htm [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:15 AM Flag
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NYC specific (with ESL, Special Ed, Gen Ed separated) - http://schools.nyc.gov/daa/ [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:27 AM Flag
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i don't see a school by school breakdown... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 11:36 AM Flag
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LL has a good G&T program but is not comparable to Anderson or Nest which are both far superior to LL in various ways. I toured LL and started speaking to one of the parents of a student that was in a classroom. I asked her to tell me the weakest aspect of the program. She said while they were all about writing the math program was very weak. She said most kids at other schools, especially the privates, had far passed where here daughter was in her math class. She said this was the biggest reason why they were having trouble getting into the middle schools they wanted. I was surprised to hear this but appreciated her honesty. More importantly, stop the competition. It is unproductive. Your child's experience will be his/her experience. Try not to taint it with an unproductive competitive edge. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:32 AM Flag
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dude, why does it matter how fast or slow the curriculum is? Who cares that a 3rd grader at LL is at a different level than a 3rd grader at NEST? What matters is that the kids graduating from NEST, Anderson, LL, etc. mostly go on to to the best MS and HS the city has to offer. Once done with the program they are pretty much on the same level. Btw, how does an LL student know how she compares to other children in other schools? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:43 AM Flag
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It wasn't the student it was her mom. What she said was that her daughter was not at the same level in math that the other kids in the same grade elsewhere. She said she thought math was a weak point of the program and why they were having a tough time getting into middle school. Make sense? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:51 AM Flag
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From my experience most LL graduates go to their first choice middle school. That was my experience when I did the tour. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:20 AM Flag
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yes. her daughter is not at the same level in math as compared with other kids. because kids at LL is at the higher level. look at the math score. nothing else can tell you the truth about math. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 11:28 AM Flag
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are you crazy? Nest is superior than LL???? Please keep dreaming!!! In NEST lots of negative things you will see there. Trust me. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:19 AM Flag
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Nope, not crazy but i guess your's is a typical over competitive LL parent reaction. I was just talking about my experience when i went to visit LL. It was interesting and I appreciated the honesty of that parent. She was very cool. Perhaps you should tone it down and realize that your defensive other school bashing is odd and, again, just not productive. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:35 AM Flag
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Well, as a LL parent, the admin is not any better with their parent-relations. They treat parents like the enemy interlopers they believe us to be. And with another dc in A, I can tell you the kids hate Dr. Koetke, so good luck with that. Wake up people! These are public schools, they vill do vat they vant and you vill like it!! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:35 AM Flag
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Not my experience as a LL parent.... They do have a job to do, and need to look out for the kids/school as a whole, but I think they do a pretty good job of outreach within the constraints of space/funding/DOE rules. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.21.09, 10:04 PM Flag
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lol!! LL got the best math score just because they have very math program!! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 11:11 AM Flag
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WOW. it's amazing. I am happy I chose LL over NEST for my 99 SB/OLSAT dc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:21 AM Flag
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Glad you're happy. In my opinion after extensive research, LL is not on same playing field as Anderson or Nest. Whatever. It's still a good program. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:37 AM Flag
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NP: What kind of research? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:39 AM Flag
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The one that justifies her feeling superior. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:41 AM Flag
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i don't feel superior at all. as a matter of fact this whole school process is very humbling. i was just conveying my experience while visiting LL. again, the attacking is not productive. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:50 AM Flag
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tours, books, articles, test scores, speaking with other parents, extensive discussions with head of our pre-school, discussions with teachers dd had when she was 3 and 4, speaking with parents at each school asking the tough questions, thinking things thru for the short term and long term, speaking with parents at other public and private schools, researching where kids go after each school, looking closely at programs in each school, etc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:45 AM Flag
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And you found out after all that that NEST is better than Lower Lab? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:55 AM Flag
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Overall, yes. Stronger in many areas. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:58 AM Flag
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Others have done similar research and determined the LL is a better choice than NEST - public school reports are particularly enlightening. Reality is that is probably a toss up between two very good schools, and kids will thrive in either. Also, things change over time - just a 5 years ago NEST (lower school) was a different place and not as well thought of. Reasonable people can disagree. Even with better LL test scores, A is clearly a better overall school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 09:18 AM Flag
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Nest seems to have surpassed LL in a lot of areas and, yes, is improving each year. I believe this year you would find most if not all those with the choice rank Nest over LL. (With the exception of some UES folks for whom LL is a convenient choice.) In District 2, LL is more in line with PS 116. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:15 AM Flag
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My extensive research tells me LL is much much better than Nest. School tours, talk to the parents in the two schools, school ranking in the whole New York state, school reports, school scores for all the grades, talk to psychologists, compare the kids I know in the two schools, the number of kids who were pulled out by their parents from NEST to go to local gen ed... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 11:07 AM Flag
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my extensive years at LL tell me that cannot possibly be true. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 11:11 AM Flag
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Then I am telling you that is true. I did this for long time for my dc. I am very serious about my dc's education. that's the reason I choose LL over NEST for my 99 (SB and OLSAT). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 11:23 AM Flag
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You call your kid your 99. Wow. do you tell him one day he can be your 100 if he really really tries? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 12:09 PM Flag
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you really do not know something. 99 means in 100 kids, he is the one above the other 99. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 12:20 PM Flag
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This is a non-issue. Nest is a better program. Let's move on. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 11:44 AM Flag
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give it up...no way NEST is better [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 03:04 PM Flag
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ummm...yes, it really is. relax, they are both good. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 07.09.08, 01:32 PM Flag
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