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06.25.08, 12:14 PM Preschool/Kids
93 replies
Slow children should be segregated from regular classes. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
Preschool/Kids 06.25.08, 12:14 PM Flag
 

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The NYT has a piece about this phenomenon today.http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/education/25gift.html [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:15 PM Flag
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This program sounds perfectly fine. It does not track students for life. It takes the low performers and gives them excellent education for one year and then they advance to the next grade in a normal class. I don't see what is so objectionable about that. It is a better practice than having them repeat the same grade. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 01:25 PM Flag
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ITA. Historically, though, kids who were put in "special" classes were held behind forever. So parents are afraid. They should call these special acceleration classes or something like. And the kids should be advanced up a grade. "Special Acceleration 2nd Grade." Kinda like junior first. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 02:33 PM Flag
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The article was about kids repeating the same grade, just with a class only of kids repeating the same grade (rather than with a class of younger kids). The goal is to promote them into a class the following year where they will be the oldest in a class of younger kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 04:56 PM Flag
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np. ITA. And attitudes like this one from the article make me nuts: "'This is very worrisome,' said Jay Heubert, a professor of law and education at Teachers College at Columbia University, arguing that both holding back students and separating them can lower self-esteem and academic achievement, increasing the likelihood of dropouts." Um, okay. You know what ELSE lowers kids' self-esteem and academic achievement? Being the lowest-performing dc in a class and unable to keep up with the curriculum year after year! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 06:46 PM Flag
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ITA!!! I found it sad in that article how stigmatized the parents seemed to be by the class. They were more worried about their child's status than doing what's best for them! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:24 PM Flag
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ITA. I hate it when my kid trips over some kid that won't get a move on [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:15 PM Flag
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I want to be your friend [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:17 PM Flag
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LOL! K! C'mon over for margaritas later [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:18 PM Flag
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can I? my plans got cancelled and i have a babysitter [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:58 PM Flag
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I think they should be shot, but only if slow in all areas including relays at recess. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:15 PM Flag
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or tazed [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:16 PM Flag
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totally. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:18 PM Flag
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I want to be your friend too and I'm fast! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:19 PM Flag
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so we've heard [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:20 PM Flag
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you mean "easy"? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:21 PM Flag
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np: but are you cheap? That is really the issue. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 01:31 PM Flag
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The whole idea of "inclusion" is based on the ill-guided notion that brought you No Child Left Behind. Namely, that all children are fundamentally of equal capability, and therefore should be held to the same standard. It is time we stopped trying to raise the performance of low performers, and realized that society is better served by tracking them off to appropriate trade-oriented education; we need to be investing in the kids who will become the most productive members of society, not the future lost causes. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:18 PM Flag
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Nice. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:19 PM Flag
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school success is not the end all and be all of humanity [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:20 PM Flag
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You are a heartless evil scumwoman [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:20 PM Flag
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why? B/c she understands that people are born with differing abilities? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:23 PM Flag
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No, because she doesn't want her brilliant baby, who didn't get the g&t placement she wanted, to be contaminated by close contact with those of (theoretically) lesser IQ. OP's motives are really clear here, especially if you've read around the past few days. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:52 PM Flag
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you are reading a lot into her statement. I think she is right and I ignore the school posts since I'm not in NYC and don't care [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:57 PM Flag
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If you're not in NYC, and don't care, why are you answering? Like the sound of your own voice that much? (Or the sight of your own words?) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 01:14 PM Flag
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I agree - breathtakingly evil. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 01:33 PM Flag
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ITA, "future lost causes"!! That infuriates me and what is wrong with the world... every child is different, has differenct capabilities and will contribute uniquely to society. Some of the smartest and most successful people I know were not good students. You are ignorant. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:29 PM Flag
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I almost agree with you but inclusion came along waaay before NCLB. Also, I don't think it's fair to call anyone a "lost cause". I do think however, that at some point, we should have different options - a college bound option, a trade school option etc. Nothing wrong at all with being a mechanic or hairdresser or plumber etc. College has gotten to be a right instead of a priviledge and I get so sick of hearing kids complain about how all the work isn't "fair". Seems like many kids go to college to drink. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:20 PM Flag
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DH was tracked as a low performer in elementary through high school. They tried to push him into trade school too. He left the state, got his degree, got some more degrees, and is now a high-end professional who is lauded for his intelligence. And let's remember that Einstein flunked out of school too. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:42 PM Flag
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and? There will always be exceptions. Doesn't mean the current system is a good one [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:46 PM Flag
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so what? there will never be *a* best and fool proof way to know what a kid is capable of and what not. But anyhthing would be much better than the current state of the school system. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:48 PM Flag
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Until someone comes up with a foolproof way to track kids, without a huge margin of error, it would be ridiculous. And the only foolproof way to track kids is to have an almost one-on-one teacher-child relationship. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:51 PM Flag
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that's a very pessimistic view. Tracking is being done in many countries and it really does more good than bad. Sure, there will always be individuals that will fall through the crack but you cannot meet the needs of every single individual when it comes to improving society in its whole. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:53 PM Flag
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Link to the research on this? Both parents have MSeD and have found the opposite to be true when applied in the US...what are you basing your statements on? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:55 PM Flag
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One of the biggest problem with tracking is that you set the stage for a dc to remain in the same track all the way through. I know so many dc that were excellent students in elementary and struggled in high school. Also know many ;ate bloomers who became excellent students later on. If you put a dc on a trade school track, they will have no chance of ever going to college [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:49 PM Flag
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This statement is horrifying. It really sounds like something the young Adolf Hitler would have written. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 01:28 PM Flag
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totally! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 03:49 PM Flag
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one could easily argue that the trade folks (electricians, plumbers, firemen, park rangers...) are more productive members of society than many of their more educated counterparts (ambulance-chasing lawyers of various sorts, I-bankers striving to make a fee from a deal that smells disaster down the road...). [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 02:16 PM Flag
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Plus, trade folk get great (or better than non-trade) union benefits, get structured on the job training, and can retire and do something else while receiving pension benefits at relatively young 40s! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 12:45 PM Flag
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Honey, you need a good lay. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 07:36 PM Flag
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I was going to write something equally scathing, then I reread this and laughed. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 07:41 PM Flag
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but they can't all be joking, all these other posters. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 09:03 PM Flag
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Please say you're joking. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 08:35 PM Flag
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oh come on! of course not all kids are of fundamentally equal capability, but the socio-economic and educational status of the parents is a huge factor in how much of the potential is realized. Children born to uneducated poor parents should not be automatically designated as lost causes - this is a huge loss to humanity! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:10 AM Flag
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of course when it's your child, you tend to see things a bit differently. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.27.08, 05:19 AM Flag
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they are. Check out almost every private in Manhattan. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:19 PM Flag
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huh? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 03:51 PM Flag
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Most countries other than the US use tracking, based upon standardized exam scores, at a very early age to differentiate the college-bound kids from the trade-school bound kids. We need to do more of that. There should be no stigma in trade school. And lets face it: not every kid is college material, and we do them no favors by putting them in debt at the age of 24 (because it took them 6 years), with a useless sheepskin from Crap U. College is overrated for kids of average to below average intelligence. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:24 PM Flag
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ITTTTTTA [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:24 PM Flag
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The problem is that liberals have equated "educational opportunity" as an all-powerful panacea for social ills. It isn't. I do feel that smart (but poor) kids should be afforded the opportunity to advance, but I think it is hopeless to try and take "special needs" kids and turn them into something they are not. (God, I hate that euphemism, too. Special needs = low potential. Maybe not in every case, but in many cases, it is absolutely true.) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:29 PM Flag
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ITA. I think mainstreaming just holds back the high performing kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 01:32 PM Flag
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np: Glad you don't get to decide that for my SN, 95% IQ kid. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 01:34 PM Flag
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my God, you are an ass. Many special needs kids are capable of academic achievement and success. I would think in 2008 we have come a long way from labeling people w/ learning disabilites as stupid. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 06:51 PM Flag
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are you kidding? there are so many SN. Some of them involve low IQ but some don't. My friend has a daughter with spina bifida. She is definitely special needs. But at 5yo, she is clearly smarter than you are. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:12 AM Flag
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can't figure out if you are a nazi or just an ignorant idiot. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 11:27 AM Flag
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God, I hate the euphemism "original poster". This OP = ignorant, disgusting ass. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:42 PM Flag
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lol! You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. I can't even take you seriously [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:54 PM Flag
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Germany, for example, starts tracking right out of grade school. Based on an evaluation that is done by the elementary school teachers your kid will go on on one of three different tracks. One is the trade-school bound track, one the college-bound, and one in-between. During the years you are allowed to switch tracks if desired but most don't do it because of social norms. In the end your children are surrounded by other children of more or less the same intellectual level which makes teaching and learning extremely easy. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:30 PM Flag
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Also the material that is taught will differ. Everyone in society needs basic literacy and numeracy, but after that, let's face it, Franky is probably better off learning how to use different tools than struggling with geometry or chemistry. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:34 PM Flag
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Yes, the curriculum is tailored to whatever is at the end of school. A trade-school bound student does not need to learn Latin or need a few years of calculus. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:38 PM Flag
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NYC school track right after grade school too. Either you get into selective MS with good shot at college, or regular MS where you will struggle to graduate HS. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 01:16 PM Flag
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Hardly the same. The majority of kids go to "regular" MS and still do well in HS and college. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 01:30 PM Flag
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Are you kidding me? Have you looked up the graduation rate from NYC HSs? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 02:44 PM Flag
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the majority do not even go to college. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 04:59 PM Flag
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yep, a good portion don't even graduate from HS. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 06:49 PM Flag
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at least they don't try to track from the ridiculous age of 4. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 02:19 PM Flag
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how sad. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 12:36 PM Flag
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ITA. There is no shame in working with your hands, if that is your forte. Hell, monetarily they may even do much better than they college-educated peers, as a plumber, contractor, electrician, if they're good and in high demand. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:57 PM Flag
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All kids should be IQ tested at age 4. Their scores should be permanently tattooed on their foreheads. They should be treated accordingly for the rest of their lives. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:40 PM Flag
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parent has a stupid kid, obviously. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:41 PM Flag
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Me? Nah, mine is quite smart. THat's why I'm pushing for the tattoo. Then everyone will know how superior she is. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:43 PM Flag
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np: I think that person was talking about your mom. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 01:14 PM Flag
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i think she was joking, duh! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:33 PM Flag
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an IQ test is not the right approach for this. There is so much more involved. I think by the end of elementary school the capabilities of a child are obvious and a dialog between teachers, child, and parents could put the child into the right track with a curtriculum that is "tailored" towards him and similar children. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:45 PM Flag
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They're only obvious in a very good school with very good teachers and staff. Plenty of kids have been considered "slow" who were in fact of very high intelligence. Especially in crowded school systems that try to teach all the kids the same way. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:48 PM Flag
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yes, but at some time they shine through and get attention, no? Either parents or teachers will notice the "misplacement" and work on getting the kid into the right track. That, of course, needs an openness on all sides that will never really happen. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:51 PM Flag
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No. Not at all. 75% of my family works for the school system in varying capacities, more kids fall through the cracks than actually get noticed for their abilities. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 12:53 PM Flag
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which is exactly what the private school admissions system does. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 04:47 PM Flag
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Agreed. Just as mothers want their 'special genius' dcs to be segregated, so too should the other spectrum of 'special' [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 01:10 PM Flag
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Aren't they? Isn't that called "special ed?" [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 01:13 PM Flag
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if this were the old UB, you'd have a shit storm. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 02:22 PM Flag
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you should be segregated from us [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 02:21 PM Flag
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The tone of this thread is really becoming quite nazi-like. Can't believe people are willing to come here and say this stuff. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 02:25 PM Flag
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the new UB. i hate this. i'm so glad i have confirmation of how horrible these women are. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 02:27 PM Flag
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it's really frightening and is creeping me out. Truly like the notes for a speech Hitler might have made in the early 1930s. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 02:37 PM Flag
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Thank you for putting my vague thoughts into words. What was that movie in the 80s? The Wave or something? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:12 AM Flag
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What is "slow"? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 03:04 PM Flag
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Oh geez, just call it like it is. Just put all the black and hispanic kids in the lower tracks and call it a day. Really, what some of you guys is suggesting is a caste system that dooms these kids from elementary school through the rest of their lives. Education IS a right. Anyone who genuinely wants one should have it, and it's not up to the gov't or the broken school systems of this country to decide who deserves a college education and who does not. Nothing is wrong with trade school, but if you put blinders on these kids early on, then they will never be able to explore their abilities and find out who it is they are to be. Tracking to a more subtle degree (as in not determining the end result -- college or not -- can be helpful, but not the way some of you guys want to do it. Crazy!) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 07:02 PM Flag
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YOu tell them. These people are nuts! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.25.08, 08:38 PM Flag
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Amen and hallelujiah, sister. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 10:01 AM Flag
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I only came over here because this thread was referred to elsewhere. Amazing how conservative and stupid this board has become in the last month or so [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 07:57 PM Flag
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And callous ignorant people like you should go live in a hole. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:43 PM Flag
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(meant for original poster ALL the way above!!) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.26.08, 08:44 PM Flag
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