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06.20.08, 18:53 PM New York City
65 replies
since we all know this year's g&t process was a total failure, can we collaborate and write what went wrong and how doe should fix it? [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
New York City 06.20.08, 06:53 PM Flag
 

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For starters, the process should start in October, not January, so people could have the notice about the same time they find out private school placement (if they are doing that, too) so they won't be in June facing the decision whether to eat a full year tuition contract and go with G&T placement [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 06:55 PM Flag
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then they would be testing 3.5 yr olds. testing 4 yr olds is already ridiculous. my DD was tested 2 weeks after she turned 4. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:18 PM Flag
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They can't test dc until they're 4 yo. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:20 PM Flag
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Then they should make the cut off for public the same as private. Sept. 1 [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:21 PM Flag
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You want them to change the bday cutoff so they can test earlier, so they can send out decisions earlier? You realize how absurd that is, right? I mean, there are some reasonable arguments for changing the bday cutoff, but that's not one of them. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:34 PM Flag
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Are you all stupid? Just start the testing in September for kids who are 4. Why do ALL the tests have to happen over three chaotic, insane weekends? The testing should trickle on throughout the year until all the kids turn 4 and are tested. Duh. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.21.08, 05:22 AM Flag
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If you want the DOE to drag the testing process out over months and keep track of every dc's exact age at the time of testing, you're the one who's stupid. That would be even more of a mess logistically and wouldn't result in an earlier notification date, which is the OR's main complaint. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.21.08, 05:53 AM Flag
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^ Keep track of the dc's exact age on the fly, I mean; to schedule appointments for testing. That's very different than Harcourt having all the dc's bdays to score the tests after the fact. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.21.08, 05:56 AM Flag
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lobby for privates to change their cutoffs to match public. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.21.08, 05:10 AM Flag
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Oh please. NYC publics serve 1.1 million kids, and most of those kids are not being served well. The last thing they should consider is parents who can afford private. I want my tax $s to go to kids who don't have that option. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:36 PM Flag
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1) they should not test at pre-k level but k at the earliest [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 06:57 PM Flag
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2) have central testing facility 3) use outside personnel fully trained to administer the test 4) implement monitors to observe during testing 5) parents should be allowed to choose time frame 6) child should be allowed to meet the tester 7) NOT TEST AT PRE-K LEVEL but at K the earliest 8) use IQ test not OLSAT [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:12 PM Flag
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amen...i'm a psychologist and can't believe they use this bogus test to measure anything. it's all about DOE being too cheap to use trained testers... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:19 PM Flag
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says the psychologist whose $$$ has dried up since doe stopped using sb/erbs for admissions to G&T. I am an educational psychologist, and you really know very little about these tests. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:28 PM Flag
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um, excuse me???? i am not a psych who works for DOE, although I did spend years testing for PREP for PREP administering the WISC and SB for very little $$. You can't honestly tell me that the OLSAT is any predictor of "giftedness." what are you basing your assessment on?? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:32 PM Flag
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what are you basing your assessment on? the studies you seem to be citing with such indignation have yet to be done. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:39 PM Flag
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np. I'm no big fan of the OLSAT, but it's ridiculous to argue the reason the DOE chose to use that test is simply because they're "too cheap" to use the alternative. We're talking about testing 50,000 kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:40 PM Flag
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And yet, the DOE manages to find the funds to send letters Fedex, UPS overnight, and spend $5 per letter for delivery by courier??? Go figure?? DOE is unbelievable! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:44 PM Flag
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DOE needs to REALLY evaluate the rules and policies and stick to them and the deadlines they set. This year was RIDICULOUS the way the "rules" changed in the middle of the game (ex. changing cut off from 95% to 90%). Plus DOE did not meet ONE deadline date that they set this year. I think if the policies and dates were set from the beginning and upheld, parents would not get so crazy and the whole process would be A LOT fairer. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:03 PM Flag
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true..not one "rule" not one "deadline" was followed, really. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:06 PM Flag
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ITTTTA. Meet the damn deadline for once and stick to original plan. You can't change the game in the middle of it. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:07 PM Flag
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ITA. And many of the midstream changes they made were to deal with issues that people here had been predicting from the start. Whoever the DOE was paying to develop its guidelines for G&T, but they should be fired. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:44 PM Flag
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You are making the assumption that there are people at the DOE who are actually trained and qualified to make the evaluation. They don't have such people. Their head(s) of education and psychometricians are bureaucratic flaks that have made their career inside a flawed system and don't have real world clinical and/or university chomps. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.21.08, 06:08 AM Flag
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From my personal perspective, it was a great success. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:06 PM Flag
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ditto [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:07 PM Flag
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that's great for you. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:07 PM Flag
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I know we're very lucky. I do think they should stick to one plan throughout, have a transparent process, and meet deadlines, though. Also, agree that testing 4 yos is a real crap shoot. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:11 PM Flag
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You were very very lucky and in the minority. Even if the outcome was "successful", didn't you find it frustrating that not ONE deadline was met? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:56 PM Flag
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OR: yes, very. I did post that in reply to "That's great for you". I reallize we were incredibly lucky. DS was actually well-rested and behaved the day of the test, he scored well, and we must've been picked early in the lottery becuase we got our first and only choice. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 08:04 PM Flag
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So then that IS something the DOE needs to fix and it does not make the process "successful" just your very very very lucky outcome. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 08:13 PM Flag
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they shouldn't begin testing until 2nd grade- G&T should be 3rd grade and up [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:21 PM Flag
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i agree with this. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:25 PM Flag
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sorry. not feasible. people cannot uproot their kids and send them to a different part of the city at age 8. no one would use these programs if they started at 3rd grade. perhaps people with no options whatsoever. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:31 PM Flag
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np: I think people would change their minds about that if it was the only option. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:33 PM Flag
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nnp: The DOE can't risk it - tons of families would be long gone to the burbs by 3rd grade. (Which of course just shows how much of the G&T program is a UMC/MC retention program) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:37 PM Flag
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but many of the burbs do not start their G&T programs until 3rd grade [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:39 PM Flag
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Right, but they provide a decent education for your child in the meantime! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:40 PM Flag
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and you think you can not find a decent education k-2 in NYC public schools? Have you even looked at gen ed classes. I have observed some gen ed classes that I think are better than the G&T ones [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:42 PM Flag
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My kid is in gen ed! But we have a good zoned school. But so many others do not have this option. Though frankly, most of the parents I know who are doing G&T are not those parents without options - they are in decent zones, but it's not good enough for them. The system is really broken right now. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:44 PM Flag
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do you feel your child is getting a decent education? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:45 PM Flag
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Absolutely. Better than decent. But people two blocks from our apt. are not. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:46 PM Flag
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in what way are they not? is the school safe? are the parents involved? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:47 PM Flag
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The school is one the "at-risk" schools. Parents are not involved in great numbers - there are always the people who stay behind and try to work within the system. But they are getting nowhere. Everyone else does private, G&T or leaves. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:48 PM Flag
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well that is why the school is at risk. If those children did not leave for G&T or private they would all be in the public school building back up [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:50 PM Flag
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It's a catch-22. Once the school's a problem, it's nearly impossible for parents to change that in the 5 years their kids are there. You cannot seriously expect parents to sacrifice their children for some greater good. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:51 PM Flag
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that's what people are going through this year- this group og incoming K were the guinea pigs and many have to face the exact scenario now b/c they were not accepted into the G&T programs and zoned schools are the only option. Sadly it has to start somewhere [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:53 PM Flag
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It should be starting with better management and commitment to ALL schools from the DOE. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:54 PM Flag
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Not necessarily. They might move, homeschool, send to private - more likely. And then you'd have an explosion of new private and charter schools, like we've had in the past in the city. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.21.08, 06:11 AM Flag
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because they have the programs in the same school. you wouldn't have to take your kid out of the school they have been in since K and have them commute 2 hrs a day to a new school just to get a G&T program. it would be ridiculous. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:41 PM Flag
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well no elementary school child should be traveling 2 hours a day to school that is ridiculous [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:43 PM Flag
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what about these people coming from washington heights to nest, or queens to anderson? sorry if you are going to have to commute, the chance that you will utilize a program wll be greater is you start there. uprooting and moving kids around would not be good for them, very disruptive psychologically, and it would likely waste time in terms of utilizing the gifted program, as dcs would take 1/4 of the year adjusting socially and with a new commute. would be stupid frankly. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:47 PM Flag
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a 5yo should not be traveling from Queens to NEST. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:49 PM Flag
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np. Who are you to say? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:50 PM Flag
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common sense would say but I can stand behind my words [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:51 PM Flag
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OK, Sanctimommy. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:55 PM Flag
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In my wealthy NJ suburb, we had regional schools and I was on a school bus for an hour each way to school. Kids in rural communities routinely travel this far and further to school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.21.08, 06:12 AM Flag
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it isn't supposed to be about you it is what is best for the child. I teach G&T- 5th grade and I am speaking from experience there shouldn't be G&T classes k-2 [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:37 PM Flag
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ITD, I wouldn't have wanted to send DC farther from home at 5 but at 8, yeah, I would! I would've been totally fine with my crappy nabe zoned school for K-2 if "gifted" testing was in 2nd and "gifted" admissions for 3rd - especially if the gifted schools went beyond 5th. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:46 PM Flag
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well, most discerning NYers wouldn't be fine with sending their kid to some crappy zoned school k-2. you may have different standards, but people with very bright kids worry that the kid will not develop the basics and a love of learning. i agree. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:54 PM Flag
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I am a discerning NYer and if you need street cred, DC was W/L at Hunter, accepted at Anderson and attends LL. But if I would actually have preferred it if the testing didn't happen until later. DC would've been just fine at PS198, has neighborhood friends there... one of whom is so obviously "gifted" that I wish she could be tested and admitted to 77. She's been doing fine at 198 (now completing 3rd grade) but could probably do so much better at 77. I think K-2 is fine anywhere that's safe and decent, and its good for NYC kids to at leat start out all together. My kid would still be reading complex books regardless of peers, and would never have been bored in any classroom k-2. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 08:29 PM Flag
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and yet, you chose LL for your dc. people are such hypocrites who make this argument! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 08:35 PM Flag
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Stuff the envelopes properly so parents don't get another family's letter. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 07:21 PM Flag
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Testing used to be in January with acceptances mailed in late March. Today's system seems far worse. Even if you are not looking at private school, June is late to be deciding on school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 08:07 PM Flag
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Figure out a process that does not penalize via testing minority kids [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.20.08, 10:02 PM Flag
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On the postive side. I liked the fact that you were guaranteed a seat if you ranked all choices and I liked the fact that there was no way to game the system. I hope those stay. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.21.08, 05:49 AM Flag
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