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06.13.08, 12:56 PM NY Schools
55 replies
I think Citywides should be not exist. Each borrough should have district G&Ts that go to 8th grade. makes no sense to have schools open for the entire city for elementary. makes sense that the districts with the greatest number of gifted kids have more programs. [ Reply | Watch | Flag ]
NY Schools 06.13.08, 12:56 PM Flag
 

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I think citywides should exist, but I'm not sure all three should be in Manhattan. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 12:57 PM Flag
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And I think *no* G&T testin gor acceptance should happen until 1st and 2nd grade and each school shoudl have a separate G&T program. At 3rd grade, eligibility for several citywides begins (needs to be at least 1-2 in each borough)for the truly gifted kids. But NYC has a middle class retetnion program, *not* a G&T porgram. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 12:59 PM Flag
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np: ITA. My DS qualified for G&T. He's bright, in no way profoundly gifted. And only the profoundly gifted need special programs. Bright kids just need good schools. And so do freaking average kids and kids with challenges. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:02 PM Flag
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so because your kid is just bright, those of us with gifted kids should not get a gifted program until 2nd grade? sorry, I disagree [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:08 PM Flag
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OR: I said first or second grade. And 3rd for the exceptional. I have an older excetpiotn al kid, I've done the research and I see what other schools districts are doing. Segragating in K is for the benefit of parents who are afraid of public schools. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:11 PM Flag
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Yes it is. And it NYC, it is somelthing that must be done. The parents would not send their dc to their zoned public. By housing g&t programs in schools that need a boost, they keep the parents, children, money, time in the public system. It works. NY is cool that way. Complain, compare, but it works. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:23 PM Flag
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well, in other school systems around the country, G&T programs are housed within the same school, so parents do not have to uproot their kids from a school to obtain gifted education. this could only work if there were a G&T program in each school. obviously not a possibility here. to say that it is a way for whites to avoid non-whites is out of line. you really don't understand the special challenges of the NYC public school system [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:30 PM Flag
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OR: Why can't G&T prgrams be housed within each school in NYC? That is my suggestoin if you read my post. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:54 PM Flag
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wouldnot be feasible for nyc to put G&T programs in every school. as it stands, they go underutilized in areas with few kids who test at gifted levels. would make no sense here. if I live in a small town in Iowa, there may be only one school in the whole town, or two. much easier to form a program within the school. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 03:11 PM Flag
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Curious what district you're in; reasons for unfilled seats are many. I fear you're believing the hype from the DoE and other unreliable sources proclaiming the lack of eligible kids. D6 closed a g&t program for the coming school year, where the (one!) K g&t class was over 20 kid. District g&t is not subject to any uniform standard. A g&t classroom in d2,3,6 or any other will be as different as night and day. My own experience with a d6 g&t classroom was incredibly sad. Last Sept, a vibrant, excited group of families and kids showed up for the first day of school. At least half of us were taken aback to hear, for the very first time, that this would be a dual immersion, Spanish/English class. That said, we all tried to adjust our mindsets and move hopefully ahead. The classroom itself was not the classroom we'd toured the previous winter-that one had been reassigned as a prek class. There were no manipulatives, no nothing really, except several tables, each with a can of riotously sharpened #2 pencils in the center. Our childrens' teacher wasn't a g&t teacher; she was an esl and dual language instructor. She was very nice and lacked language richness in English. It was quite evident the DoE decided to form some kind of esl class for kids whom scored above the cutoff. The diversity of the group was lovely, the kids bright; all the kids from Spanish speaking homes were positively, already fluent in both languages. My kid couldn't take any more- after 3 weeks of instruction on sitting up straight with feet on the floor(really) in alternating languages(both of which she understands)-and neither would we. That crap would not float in some nearby districts but this is not isolated to D6. Where are you? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 05:30 PM Flag
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no manipulatives, no nothing really, except several tables, each with a can of riotously sharpened #2 pencils in the center. Our childrens' teacher wasn't a g&t teacher; she was an esl and dual language instructor. She was very nice and lacked language richness in English. It was quite evident the DoE decided to form some kind of esl class for kids whom scored above the cutoff. The diversity of the group was lovely, the kids bright; all the kids from Spanish speaking homes were positively, already fluent in both languages. My kid couldn't take any more- after 3 weeks of instruction on sitting up straight with feet on the floor(really) in alternating languages(both of which she understands)-and neither would we. That crap would not float in some nearby districts but this is not isolated to D6. Where are you? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 05:35 PM Flag
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float in nearby districts and it isn't an isolated situation. Be very sure what you're saying comes from viewing as wide a picture as possible or you're feeding the monster that is the really screwed up DoE. Flame on- We tried to enrich, support and strengthen our local program but too expensive for our child's development. Read how many kids qualified in D6 for 1st including those in district g&ts, trying to escape to citywide. Does it seem like they're getting any g&t? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 05:41 PM Flag
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well, if it weren't spanish/english, I would say stick it out and make it better. I think doe should provide gifted programs in english in all districts. this is america afterall. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 06:02 PM Flag
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^^^and scrap the citywide concept [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 06:03 PM Flag
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I am in D3. I would be happy to see a gifted program in every school, but I do not think it would work change the fact that there would be a huge disparity among programs since good programs, gen ed or G&T, are funded by MC parents. unfortunately the NYC govt does not want to pay to have what every school system in the country has. art, gym, foreign language, adeqaute programming are thought to be some sort of unnecessary or over the top accoutrement, instead of part of education. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 05:37 PM Flag
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I don't think a kid with a 97 or 98 is gifted. Sorry. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:12 PM Flag
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You are kidding me right? You have just spit on about one half or more of every class that Hunter and Anderson have ever had (not to mention probably most of the grads of HYP) [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:13 PM Flag
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well, you are no expert. so what? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:31 PM Flag
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ita. My ds scored a 99, and while I know he's smart, I doubt he's seriously gifted. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:52 PM Flag
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I guess it's just us. Everyone else's kids seem to be geniuses. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:53 PM Flag
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again, just because yours isn't, doesn't mean there aren't those who are. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 05:22 PM Flag
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Where does ds go to school? And what is your definition of gifted? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 02:03 PM Flag
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don't know yet. We're weighing private vs. NEST, but it all depends on whether he even gets accepted to NEST. I guess I think of gifted kids as those way, way ahead of the curve. The 5yos reading at a 4th grade level or doing advanced math. My guys can't read yet, and can count to 100 and do basic math. He's really logical, curious, and great with puzzles, but not sure how much he stands out among his peers in pre-K. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 02:06 PM Flag
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So that's your problem at this point. Your dc is still young and so you don't really see his giftedness. While early readers most often are gifted, not all gifted kids read early. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 02:32 PM Flag
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just because her kid isn't gifted, doesn't mean many kids with high test scores aren't. agree that some kids test well because of exposure or whatever. but some of these kids really are gifted and would do better to have gifted education. at any rate, it makes sense for the kids most able to utilize an enriched program get it. if you have never learned your ABCs, maybe you would be better getting different help at the beginning of K than if you are a 99 on these tests. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 03:13 PM Flag
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My point is that I think that poster's 99 ds *is* gifted. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 03:23 PM Flag
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or: so how do I know aside from this one score? He didn't do as well on the ERB, although he aced block design. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 03:32 PM Flag
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I actually think it is obvious. there are those kids who are just extremely curious, driven to learn, get things very easily adn have memories that are unbelievable. you will know it if you have a kid like that. I have one, and it has been commented on by everyone for as long as I can remember. I don't think it is as subtle as people here make it out to be. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 04:57 PM Flag
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or: mine is pretty much like that, but I thought all kids were. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 05:33 PM Flag
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you can't be serious? please. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 05:39 PM Flag
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and a kid w/ a 99 is? You've really bought into this. OLSAT is a crap test(my kid aced it)w/crap administration. The damage brought upon all learners by that criteria is immeasurable and certain. The meaning and interpretation of these standards for measuring "giftedness' are absurd and without value. Look how it's twisted so many parents- on this site alone! [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 07:18 PM Flag
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frankly, you sound very bitter. I highly doubt your kid aced it. why all the venom and investment? truth is it is a cognitive test like all the others, and none is infallible. some kids are very prepared for these tests and test above their intellectual level. others are actually gifted. so what? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.14.08, 04:03 AM Flag
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Um, no. There is not enough PG kids to make a program. Exceptionally gifted kids and highly gifted kids (those who were accurately tested on SB5 to score above 98th percentile) also need accelerated curriculum. EG kids are capable of finishing HS curriculum by 8th grade. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:13 PM Flag
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OR: I'm not talking about PG kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:14 PM Flag
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But so many of the kids are getting only 97s or 98s - that's not profoundly gifted. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:20 PM Flag
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yes, but data exist supporting the notion that kids scoring 95% and above benefit from gifted education over general education. your opinion vs actual data? hmmm... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:38 PM Flag
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I wonder what the studies show about all the average kids in crummy schools in NYC. They are probably being harmed more, and they have no choices. All I'm saying is that there is limited resources, and spending the money for the 95-98ers is all about keeping upper middle class families from leaving NYC. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:41 PM Flag
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np: ita - no one seems to give a crap about making bad zoned schools any better, only "saving" a few choice kids. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 02:07 PM Flag
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the only reason the G&T schools are good is because there is a sufficient number of MC parents who bring in their own money and efforts to improve the school. does not happen in low income areas with uneducated parents. so it isn't that the DOE is spending extra money for the G&T kids...in fact, its less. but there parents are spending the money. no resources coming from your pocket. My feeling is the DOE should increase spending to all schools. burns me to pay for my dc to get extras like art, etc. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 03:09 PM Flag
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I'm not worried about the money coming from my pocket - I'm worried about all the kids who don't have involved parents basically being thrown away in this system. We are lucky to be in a good zoned school, so the G&T placement didn't matter. If I were in a crappy zone, of course I would have taken advantage of his score - to get him out of a bad school, not because I think he needs a specialized education. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 03:14 PM Flag
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again, the fact that your dc is not gifted means nothing in terms of whether other kids who get high scores are gifted. many of them are. that MC people have to pay for basics and poor people cannot is exactly the same problem. this city does not pay to educate its children in a decent fashion. taking exception to G&T programs does nothing to change this basic fact [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 03:22 PM Flag
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Agree. she makes it sound like it is either or. that the doe doesn't provide basics to any of the kids, gifted or not, rich or poor is the real problem. No sense in pitting the MC against the poor on this one. The government is to blame for not providing properly for anyone. the fact that the MC can bring some resources is fortunate for some, but should have been provided for everyone in the first place. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 05:28 PM Flag
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^^^and by G&T, I mean not a separate school within a school, but classes and enrichment programs. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:07 PM Flag
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my child is at Hunter and I saw the immediate value of gifted education at the kindergarten level [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:09 PM Flag
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all kids deserve that kind of education at K level. There sure is a benefit. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:11 PM Flag
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Not all kids would respond well to it. There is a certain amount of self-directed behavior that needs to happen at Hunter (and I would assume at other gifted programs). That is in large part why a second round is necessary to figure out who will work well within the system [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:15 PM Flag
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D3 does have more G&Ts. There are small districts with only 1 G&T program that doesn't even fill up. Citywide is necessary. Also, Citywide has a higher cutoff - it's not an excuse to send dc to white programs. I do think all the 99ers (ERB or SB, not using olsat which is really inappriate for measuring IQ) should have a seat. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:00 PM Flag
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testing 4 yos is not a good way to determine this [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:07 PM Flag
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It's not good for some kids, but others do just fine. Those who can't test well at 4 can try agin for 1st or 2nd if I had the power. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:11 PM Flag
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well if it was structured like I suggested with G&T classes (OR above) that woudl be no big deal and partcipation would be fluid and re-evaluated each year. And if a kid qualified, there would not be a waitlist. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:13 PM Flag
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not feasible. do you think you are the first to think of this? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 03:24 PM Flag
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ITDA. there have been no studies comparing sb/erb/olsat, so you have no data to back your claim. to say that citywides are necessary because some districts have only one program that doesn't fill up is strange logic, indeed [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:12 PM Flag
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agree. kills me that these people think just because they have fewer kids qualifying in their district, they should get more spots. wtf? so ridiculous and entitled. [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 01:06 PM Flag
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you are so why D3 has such a bad name... [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.13.08, 07:24 PM Flag
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why? I don't get why you should be granted more spots in the citywides. the district programs need to be better developed. how does that give D3 a bad name? [ Reply | More
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General Topics 06.14.08, 04:05 AM Flag
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